Someone's Been Reading This Board Too Long
POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 06:18
VIEWED: 7792
PAGE 8 of 8
Quote:As Sc'y of Commerce, Baldridge had to sign all of these exports, which he did.
US leaders did not supply Hussein with Chemical or biological weapons. This is a myth. Some US companies, Dow Chemical for instance, did sell Iraq chemicals that could have been used as precursors to the Iraqi manufacture of certain chemical weapons.
More, and links later
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
And yet the military is an organization that seems quite beyond the power of the aggregate of US civilians to either stop it or control it, either politiclaly or economically.
I would say that it is more the top end of the command structure ( the President and cabinet ) that has stepped beyond control.
I think an example of my point is the coming base closures, if the military had the ability to opperate beyond budget limits... this wouldn't happen.
The cutbacks your Navy faces... from 15 to 9 carrier groups in the next ten years. Down to 18 Fast attack subs, entire classes of ships ( battleships ) retired, etc
Another analogy, do you blame your tools when the job they do is not to your liking....
Or do you blame the hand guiding the tool
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
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You seem quite up on military forces. You'd be a good resource for anyone wanting to learn about that.
Yes, base closures, and yet at the same time "US Plans More Plutonium" (or words to that effect, today's headline), 'Star Wars' and 'Missile Defense': basically cutting forces but throwing $$$ down the toilet at other things. I've read that the buds over in industry and think tanks dream up these lovely ideas, sell their notions to their buds in policy development groups, by the time it gets to the Pentagon appointees it's been corn-fed and pampered to a healthy size .... and it matters some who's in office, but the military industrial complex is not totally under their control either ...
I would blame the hand of course, I'm just not sure who has a hand (so to speak) in it.
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Quote:This article talks about diplomatic relations between the US and Hussein’s regime, which intelligent minds can differ on. As I said, there is legitimate criticism of US foreign policy here. You're just too far out there in Leftfield with the crazy talk to find it.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The Washington post quotes several senior officals about your so called " myth "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conten
tId=A52241-2002Dec29Found=true
Quote:Yeah it was “something to that effect.” Are France, Russia and Germany trying to kill off certain “groups of people” who are American?
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
And my quote was not to claim that the US is trying to kill off certain countries, I believe I said groups of people or words to that effect.
Quote:Or possibly it was that the militant Islamic terrorists who took control of Iran held almost a hundred Americans hostage for 444 days, recommencing widespread repression as bad as, if not, worse then the Shah.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The article also discusses that very same policy towards Iran, the victim of aggression in this particular war that the US decided to support. Could it be because the US had a bit of a black eye after their picked ruler, the Shah fell and the Iranians dared to be openly hostile to the “freedom loving nation " which help to inflict that despot on them for over twenty-five years......
Although US support for the Shah, at least from about the mid 60’s was probably ill-conceived, at least to some degree.
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You seem quite up on military forces. You'd be a good resource for anyone wanting to learn about that.
Yes, base closures, and yet at the same time "US Plans More Plutonium" (or words to that effect, today's headline), 'Star Wars' and 'Missile Defense': basically cutting forces but throwing $$$ down the toilet at other things. I've read that the buds over in industry and think tanks dream up these lovely ideas, sell their notions to their buds in policy development groups, by the time it gets to the Pentagon appointees it's been corn-fed and pampered to a healthy size .... and it matters some who's in office, but the military industrial complex is not totally under their control either ...
I would blame the hand of course, I'm just not sure who has a hand (so to speak) in it.
Well as they say, know thy enemy...hehe
Back in the late eightys / early ninetys when I was in the Canadian Military, I was in a position which I ended up reading quite a bit about the organization of the Soviet Military... I guess it just gave me an interest in the subject matter, you start to look at the whats and hows.. but usually get lost in the whys.
The Pentagon is like any Western style government agency to a large extent. Everyone wants their projects funded and try to use whatever influences they can to pursue that.
The base closure thing is just like that, right now the Senator from Maine is making lots of noise about lost jobs, and how the base in Kings Bay Georgia can't be expanded to take in the relocated personnel, etc. The Senator from Georgia is saying , no the Naval base is perfect, but we can't shut down this other station, and so on.
The Politics are so enmeshed with the way your Military functions, I'd say anyone two star and up would have to be a very good political operator in their own right.
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:This article talks about diplomatic relations between the US and Hussein’s regime, which intelligent minds can differ on. As I said, there is legitimate criticism of US foreign policy here. You're just too far out there in Leftfield with the crazy talk to find it.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The Washington post quotes several senior officals about your so called " myth "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&conten
tId=A52241-2002Dec29Found=true
Ok, this contradicts your entire stance :from the same link
" The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague. "
Quote:
Quote:Yeah it was “something to that effect.” Are France, Russia and Germany trying to kill off certain “groups of people” who are American?
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
And my quote was not to claim that the US is trying to kill off certain countries, I believe I said groups of people or words to that effect.
You still haven't answered your own question there ?
Quote:
Quote:Or possibly it was that the militant Islamic terrorists who took control of Iran held almost a hundred Americans hostage for 444 days, recommencing widespread repression as bad as, if not, worse then the Shah.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The article also discusses that very same policy towards Iran, the victim of aggression in this particular war that the US decided to support. Could it be because the US had a bit of a black eye after their picked ruler, the Shah fell and the Iranians dared to be openly hostile to the “freedom loving nation " which help to inflict that despot on them for over twenty-five years......
The hostage crisis was in response to the US refuing to turn over the Shah for trial in Iran ( for all the nastyness you help him commit )
As your country invaded Afganistan recently for the same reasons... hmmmm double standard ( must be an American thing )
Quote:
Although US support for the Shah, at least from about the mid 60’s was probably ill-conceived, at least to some degree.
So then you would say overthrowing an elected government to install a brutal dictator to expand your own economic interests to not be ill-conceived until a decade later ? hmmmmm
Need an eyes rolling emoticon
BTW, I'm considered to be fairly rightwing...just not an American
When my eloquence escapes you
My logic ties you up and rapes you
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_police/de_do_do_do_de_da_da_da.h
tml
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Quote:No it doesn’t. It supports my stance. It’s certainly worded suggestively, but that’s journalism for you. In the end all it says is that the US sold dual use products to Iraq. As far as anthrax and plague, the US sold medical grade samples for medical research commercially, but this is more of the same: dual use products.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Ok, this contradicts your entire stance :from the same link
" The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague. "
Quote:And I don’t intend to. I’m not in the habit of answering my own questions particularly when they are posed to other people, who refuse to answer them.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
You still haven't answered your own question there ?
Quote:You mean a beheading. Islamofascists don’t hold trials.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The hostage crisis was in response to the US refuing to turn over the Shah for trial in Iran ( for all the nastyness you help him commit )
Quote:Seemed like a good idea at the time.
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
So then you would say overthrowing an elected government to install a brutal dictator to expand your own economic interests to not be ill-conceived until a decade later ? hmmmmm
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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