FFF.net I've Seen Serenity Thread **MAJOR SPOILERS**
POSTED BY: everyworldspinnin
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 04:21
VIEWED: 14879
PAGE 4 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove:
Oh come on, aren't you over-reacting just a bit? I can understand you not wanting Wash to die, but that's life!
No, it's not life - it's a movie. I go to movies to escape real life....not that I want only happy endings, but unlike real life I want tragedies to make sense, or at least help the storyline. Movies are where I escape to - where I want to see the good guys win - something that almost never happens in real life; especially nowadays. I think it was very hurtful of Joss to repay all our work helping to save this show by killing Wash (for no reason IMO) and having almost no reaction from the other characters.
And "aren't I over-reacting"? You sound like Jayne....I was posting my opinion - I had read and respected everyone elses opinions, and thought mine would receive the same.
Guild Sister
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Wow...for a while there, I actually thought this thread would avoid the whole "Wash's death ruined the entire movie" issue. It did manage to stay away from the subject longer than most of those posted at the UB's, so at least that is something.
The question now is: Are we going to let the discussion become carried away between those who accept the deaths and those in denial? How about we discuss more interesting topics? May I suggest that those who wish to bicker about this point go on over to the official site and add to the useless cacophony that has been going on since early May?
Having seen the movie twice, I am much more interested in the following points:
1. Book pretty much disclosed his past through informing Mal about The Operative. The subject of belief, in particular, is very telling. However, does anyone doubt that Ron Glass will be back in a sequel in some form or another? Clearly, Book's story can be told without his direct involvement and might possibly be used in conjunction to solve a greater mystery.
2. Inara's backstory about leaving behind the guild and the great potential she had there was never touched on in the movie. Will her past be brought to light in the sequels?
(And yes, her character was woefully underdeveloped in the BDM, but Joss only had so much time to introduce the 9 characters, plus The Operative)
3. Is Simon or Kaylee marked for death now that they have gotten together? Joss has a history of wrecking happy couples...
4. Does anyone really think Mal and Inara will end up together? Joss likes to give people what they need, rather than what they want, so I don't see them ever becoming truly reconciled.
5. What is next for the crew of Serenity? Are we going to get some Blue Sun/Blue Hands involvement in the sequels? Does anyone else see the final movie of the franchise end with Mal sacrificng the ship in some spectacular way? (I know, it's been done to death, but I still think Joss could find a way to make it seem new and innovative.)
-Oxy
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'What people call impossible is just stuff they
haven't seen yet...'
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Some good questions. I don't want to speculate on sequels, except in the broadest possible sense, because I know I'm going to be surprised. I certainly was this time out. Guessing what might happen two movies on is far beyond my powers of prognostication.
Of course I'd like to see more with Inara in the next movie; I agree, there was too little of her this time around. I loved that the rest of the crew knew exactly what was going on between Mal and Inara, even if those two didn't acknowlege it. In this way, the crew was very much like the audience (this underlined by everyone watching Mal and Inara on "TV"), knowing what's going on and frustrated/entertained by their inability to express their feelings.
The Whedon Curse does hang over Simon and Kaylee, but for now I'm content to let them have their moment. Jeez, for Mal and Inara's sake it might be safer if they didn't get together.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guildssister:Quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove:
Oh come on, aren't you over-reacting just a bit? I can understand you not wanting Wash to die, but that's life!
No, it's not life - it's a movie. I go to movies to escape real life....not that I want only happy endings, but unlike real life I want tragedies to make sense, or at least help the storyline. Movies are where I escape to - where I want to see the good guys win - something that almost never happens in real life; especially nowadays. I think it was very hurtful of Joss to repay all our work helping to save this show by killing Wash (for no reason IMO) and having almost no reaction from the other characters.
Oh boo hoo for you, cry me a river. If you want a safe movie go watch Herbie Rides Again or some other mindless Disney fluff. This is the BDM, and it's not for sissies. People die, people we love. It's a rough 'verse out there and no one is safe.
Quote:
Originally posted by Guildssister:
And "aren't I over-reacting"? You sound like Jayne....I was posting my opinion - I had read and respected everyone elses opinions, and thought mine would receive the same.
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Deal with it.
"What y'all order a dead guy for?" - Jayne Cobb
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I've been thinking about the movie a lot since I saw it at one of the screenings, and reading this comment:
Quote:
I go to movies to escape real life....not that I want only happy endings, but unlike real life I want tragedies to make sense, or at least help the storyline.
above, helped me put into words something I wanted to say about why I liked the whole of the film: Coming from the same standpoint, that I want to go to movies to escape real life, I also think if things are too far from real life you switch off - it's not an escape at all, it's a bad movie... Tragedies are senseless, and I want some sort of fiction or art that explores how that is, otherwise I can't go back to my real life with anything. Putting a 'senseless' (in the idea that it's tragical) act in a story and then continuing the story and showing that people - I'm thinking of Zoe here - just get on with it - that gives it sense. If Wash's death was 'senseless' in the idea that it was a writer adding something to shock us, then we wouldn't care so much. These characters really live...
Does that make sense? I'm still not sure I said exactly what I meant to! Very interesting comments all round though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamzoe:
I've been thinking about the movie a lot since I saw it at one of the screenings, and reading this comment:Quote:
I go to movies to escape real life....not that I want only happy endings, but unlike real life I want tragedies to make sense, or at least help the storyline.
above, helped me put into words something I wanted to say about why I liked the whole of the film: Coming from the same standpoint, that I want to go to movies to escape real life, I also think if things are too far from real life you switch off - it's not an escape at all, it's a bad movie... Tragedies are senseless, and I want some sort of fiction or art that explores how that is, otherwise I can't go back to my real life with anything. Putting a 'senseless' (in the idea that it's tragical) act in a story and then continuing the story and showing that people - I'm thinking of Zoe here - just get on with it - that gives it sense. If Wash's death was 'senseless' in the idea that it was a writer adding something to shock us, then we wouldn't care so much. These characters really live...
Does that make sense? I'm still not sure I said exactly what I meant to! Very interesting comments all round though.
Exactly. Tragedy is a part of drama, something that Shakespear understood. Look at Romeo & Juliette, or even Hamlet -- would either play have had the same impact if the heros had lived at the end?
Serenity only killed off two characters, not the whole cast. But those deaths have caused all sorts of ruckus amongst the fans, which is what I suspect that Joss Whedon had in mind. These deaths may be senless but they are not forgettable, and fans will be talking about them for a very long time. They had a huge impact on people, and that's the very essence of drama.
"What y'all order a dead guy for?" - Jayne Cobb
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I understand people that are upset over the deaths, I do. My girlfriend was especially not happy with Wash's death... but she's gotten over it.
I was at the Memphis screening, and the point of Wash's death was evident the rest of the film. When Zoe was stabbed I overheard people saying, "not another one." When Jayne was shot, same thing... when Kaylee took the darts to the neck, same result. When Mal got stabbed, shrieks of horror because there was a belief that he might actually die. When the scene ended with Simon's health not confirmed, there was actual tension that he might be dead. Even with River, you didn't KNOW that she would come out of her battle alive. You had to figure, because it's her and Mal's movie/show, and it's doubtful Joss would off the major characters. But for those people who haven't seen the show? Maybe they don't get that.
And let's address that for a minute-- people who haven't the seen the show. Who are the two most recognizable people in the cast? For anyone over 25 years old, Ron Glass is pretty recongnizable, and Alan Tudyk has been in some popular stuff as of late. Those are the two actors that an uniniated audience is most likely to immediately identify with. By killing those two, Whedon has let the new viewer know that no one is safe.
And we should be ready, because if there are sequels, there will almost certainly be more deaths. My guess is that at the end of things Mal and River are the only two safe characters.
Zoe is damaged goods. She reclessly risked her life in the final battle and it almost cost her... that's likely to continue.
Kaylee's death would rock the crew beyond any other, and that makes her a prime target for Whedon.
Inara becomes a target because of her potential relationship with Mal, and we know how Whedon is with happy couples.
Simon is a target because of his relationship with River - and how his death would likely send River into a homicidal rage.
Jayne is probably safe, simply because other than Kaylee, no one would be that emotionally hurt by Jayne's death. But, he's also got the opportunity to have a Boromir-like death in which he makes up for something stupid with a sacrifice.
I could very easily see the final movie ending with Mal and River flying off in Serenity together, wounded and alone. Kind of like the end of "Angel," where we had left alive Angel (Mal), Ilyria (River), and Spike (Jayne). Gunn was hanging on by a thread, but it was clear to me that only the other three would live through the battle.
As to some other points brought up... I too thought it was hinted at very strongly that Book had been an Operative. If we find out more later, great... if not, I'm just going to assume that's the answer to that question. I would also guess that a sequel (fingers crossed) would deal with the blue hands hunting down River. That's the main unfinished plot line... otherwise, I expect Joss to be very capable of creating another arc.
My one concern at this point is the music. The last 30 minutes of this film, especially, are very emotional. To those of us who have seen the show, the emotion is there. For new people, the music will likely dictate the amount of pain or elation felt. That falls squarely at the feet of David Newman, who has been up and down in his career, never really turning out any bad scores, but having a bunch of uneventful ones. There are highlights, like his work on "The Phantom," "Anastasia," and "Galaxy Quest," and this movie needs that kind of memorable score if it wants to really open new doors for a hopefully growing fan base. A movie like "Pirates of the Caribbean" is instantly a better movie with the addition of a great score (by Klaus Badelt). Jerry Goldsmith's work on "Star Trek the Motion Picture" likely had a lot to do with the addition of new fans. As did the work of John Williams in "Superman" and Danny Elfman with "Batman" and "Spiderman" and now the combo of Zimmer and Howard with "Batman Begins" to help bring comic books to life. Hopefully Newman can come up with something that really works, o
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OOps, never mind.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by nxojkt:
On another issue altogther, though... I loved the first scene on Serenity in the film. In case you didn't notice, there isn't an edit in the entire long intro of both the crew and the ship. Joss has done these long shots before on all three tv shows, and I was glad to see him tackle one in the film.
There was some nice trick editing going on in that scene since the interior sets for Serenity were broken up onto two separate sound stages on the Universal backlot. As with the sets for the TV show, I'm sure the "break" came when Mal turned the corner and started to descend the stairs into the cargo bay. In older films you probably could have recognized the hard cut (i.e. like in Fellowship of the Ring in Bag End when Frodo walks quickly through the room and the camera does a whip/pan/cut to show Ian McKellan walking through the same room on the miniature set), but this time it looks like Zoic employed some CGI morphing to seamlessly blend the two shots into one.
"What y'all order a dead guy for?" - Jayne Cobb
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove:
There was some nice trick editing going on in that scene since the interior sets for Serenity were broken up onto two separate sound stages on the Universal backlot.
The scene did include some nice editing magic. However, the Serenity ship set (although divided into two sections) was still together in the same sound stage at Universal.
11thHour
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"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne
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