Someone's Been Reading This Board Too Long
POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 06:18
VIEWED: 7792
PAGE 3 of 8
You are far too kind.
Have I mentioned that I discuss issues with MANY really, really smart people - most of them on this board and also my sister (the smart child) and my BiL - and that nearly everything I know I got from someone else? I just want to repeat that in case I haven't said it recently.
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In May of 2000, I remember in a London café one afternoon, I sat down at a table with a French woman and her husband. I spoke with them for several minutes before I realized they didn’t know I was an American. It was perhaps this that made this woman so bold as to be so honest about what she felt about Americans. She said, “Americans are dogs, and they should be killed like dogs.” I spoke with her for several minutes trying to identify what it was that caused to despise Americans so much, and never really ended on anything specific or even lucid. Is this what Europeans say, when they think you’re not an American? Outrageous. I was a little taken aback by it. What on earth brings people to hate so much what has caused them no reason for such hatred?
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by creeso:
So, after my brain bested my initial emotions I hoped (though figured otherwise) that we would NOT respond with violence. That we would try to arrest those involved by using “proper” channels and not with bombs. That we would examine our foreign policy, perhaps even alter it, and begin trying to respect other countries’ wishes and rights a little more. I felt like this gave the U.S. an opportunity to open our eyes and to change for the better. To perhaps build even better foreign relations and correct some of our mistakes. It would seem as if we’ve managed quite the opposite.
You make it all sound so simple! I was right there with you...
Creeso, it's so gratifying to me to have inspired you to cease your lurking if only for this one post! I would certainly categorize Dream Geezer as a "lurker" in my own psyche, so I'm glad he may have inspired you to show yourself here. Welcome!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:It may not be as baseless as you assume.
What on earth brings people to hate so much ...
Perhaps it has something to do with the US being the massive gorilla on the international park bench, AND beyond being oblivious, being dismissive and arrogant to boot.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Have I mentioned that I discuss issues with MANY really, really smart people...and that nearly everything I know I got from someone else?
Um...and this, somehow, makes you less presidential?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:Well, that’s pretty baseless.
Originally posted by rue:
It may not be as baseless as you assume.
Perhaps it has something to do with the US being the massive gorilla on the international park bench, AND beyond being oblivious, being dismissive and arrogant to boot.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Is this what Europeans say, when they think you’re not an American? Outrageous. I was a little taken aback by it. What on earth brings people to hate so much what has caused them no reason for such hatred?
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
That's a fascinating and nasty story, Finn. Most Americans don't know what it's like to be hated because they happen to fall into a category. 'Course, other Americans do.
I really think it's hard for us as Americans to understand what our absolute power looks like from the other side. We're nice folks, why are they all so scared?
Additionally, Americans think that as long as the good things we do outnumber the bad things we've done at the end of the day, we should remain beloved by all. But it doesn't work that way. The fella we just beat up doesn't care how much money we donate to charities each year. No amount of goodness outweighs the badness except in our own miserable psyches. The badness just is. The only way to make up for the badness is to repair it and stop doing it. Otherwise, folks just see us as two-faced. AND the greatest military power on Earth.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I don't think anyone who was serious about foreign affairs had a big problem with how we dealt with Afghanistan. It was when we turned our attention to Iraq that things began to change.
I think you are wrong there. Many non-US news outlets did report that the Taliban government was prepared to extradite Osama bin Laden, making the way you " dealt " with Afganistan unnescesary.
The only problems.... they demanded actual proof he was involved ( due process in any extradiction )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/highlights/010913_retaliation
.shtml
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=/ForeignBureaus/arc
hive/200109/For20010913a.html
" Khan also added people will demand proof from the US government on Bin Laden's involvement in order to evaluate the evidence and consider his extradition. He said "
" The Taleban government has repeatedly refused to hand over Bin Laden for trial but has said that it would consider extraditing him to the US is his involvement is proven. "
as well they also spoke of an international tribunal, rather than a straight hand over to the US if the case an arguement for the possibility of not recieving a fair trial ( an impossibility )
Diplomacy was not dead, but the fires being stoked by the hawks ( whose Foreign policy caused the war ) had to be appeased.
" They didn't care about our citizens, so we don't care about theirs. "I say bomb the hell out of them," Sen. Zell Miller (D-Ga.) said in an angry speech Wednesday. "
Of course, if the negotiations, as well as international mediation fell thru... then the US would have been justified. Mind you, if the US was justified and this is the way the game is played, I suppose it would be completely fair if the Cuban airforce starts bombing runs on targets in Florida over the lack of a Luis Posada Carriles extradiction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4561751.stm
" Looking for a place to happen
Making stops along the way "
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Mind you, if the US was justified and this is the way the game is played, I suppose it would be completely fair if the Cuban airforce starts bombing runs on targets in Florida over the lack of a Luis Posada Carriles extradiction.
No. Eh-eh. Not logic. It won't work when applied politically. I mean I totally agree with you, but...facts and logic and such just serve to cloud the issue.
ironic Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I don't think anyone who was serious about foreign affairs had a big problem with how we dealt with Afghanistan. It was when we turned our attention to Iraq that things began to change.
I think you are wrong there. Many non-US news outlets did report that the Taliban government was prepared to extradite Osama bin Laden, making the way you " dealt " with Afganistan unnescesary.
The only problems.... they demanded actual proof he was involved ( due process in any extradiction )
Ahh.. ok. I didn't know that. Still, it seems most people at least understood why Americans would support such action. I think a lot more people were perplexed how Americans could be convinced Iraq should be invaded. I know I was.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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