Newbie Question - Aliens?

POSTED BY: Leee
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 04:21
VIEWED: 8386
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ZOID

Saturday, June 18, 2005 5:44 AM

YT wrote:

Quote:
...Good to see you back, zed.

'Hi', back atcha! Good to see something other than preview tickets/scalping threads on which to comment. I didn't go anywhere; I just didn't have anything to add to that topic, and it appeared to be the only one anyone was interested in. I did try to start a thread on how I thought BlueSun might be the vestiges of today's Japanese manufacturers. It got exactly zero responses.

Thank God/Mother Earth/The Ineffable Nothingness/The Sciences (i.e. whatever folks might be worshipping these days) for newbies and their questions. Never thought you'd hear that, did ya'?

On a side note, one poster above (I'm not gonna single him/her out) begged to be kept spoiler free on the movie, claiming to not even have watched the trailer in that pursuit. Isn't this getting a little obsessive/compulsive, like excessive habitual hand washing? If one really wishes to remain totally free of even a hint which might point to a clue about a spoiler, shouldn't one simply avoid Whedon-based sites altogether? It hardly seems fair to accuse others of spoiling when all they are doing is engaging in mutual-consent discourse.

I'm fairly certain that we could know the entire plot before walking in the theatre and still get the bejeezus shocked out of us. "Subtle is the Lord", and so is Joss. And just because folks see something in a preview screener doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be that way in the final release. Ever wonder why these preview screenings continue to be the "unfinished" version, for lo, these past two months? Surely, they must be very nearly finished with the color timings and FX by now. Could it be that the entire theatrical-release movie is finished, but with different scenes/ending than is being trotted out at previews?

Maybe what everyone is currently seeing at previews is going to wind up on the "Deleted Scenes" feature on disc 2 of the DVD set. Now that would be a misdirection ploy worthy of Joss Whedon, the ultimate spoilerphobe...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

YT

Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I did try to start a thread on how I thought BlueSun might be the vestiges of today's Japanese manufacturers. It got exactly zero responses.

I read that thread within a few hours of you posting it. It seemed well reasoned but, @the time, all I could think to say was "I doubt it", which falls just shy of my standards for constructive criticism. I was surprised that it disappeared without comment. It may have suffered from an unfortunate, & little mentioned, artifact of the screenings (& tickets) buzz, to whit: General Discussions threads are archived in little over a day -- for a while, when you started that thread, it was less than a day.

Quote:
Thank God/Mother Earth/The Ineffable Nothingness/The Sciences (i.e. whatever folks might be worshipping these days) for newbies and their questions. Never thought you'd hear that, did ya'?

I certainly think I will never hear the opposite from you, though others less courtly have expressed said opposing sentiment. Which makes this a subject worthy of its own thread.

Quote:
On a side note, one poster above (I'm not gonna single him/her out) begged to be kept spoiler free on the movie, claiming to not even have watched the trailer in that pursuit. Isn't this getting a little obsessive/compulsive, like excessive habitual hand washing?

While it could be argued that I'm in a great position to know one, I see nothing wrong with wishing to keep one's hands clean.

Returning to your opening point, what ticks me off about this request is that before the trailer (before hint of the screenings) I started a thread suggesting we needed a new forum for the BDM. It got a few posts in 36 hours, including one from Haken saying he'd add another forum if it seemed wanted. For the next month, whenever someone complained about unlabeled spoilers, I posted a link to that thread. Nobody has supported it. http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=9371

Quote:
Maybe what everyone is currently seeing at previews is going to wind up on the "Deleted Scenes" feature on disc 2 of the DVD set. Now that would be a misdirection ploy worthy of Joss Whedon, the ultimate spoilerphobe...

Sounds like a fun flight, but not without a reliable oxygen supply. Bon voyage

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) Rob Beaulieu & Raisinhead, "Rock Cut Road", from "Back to the Tracks"

THEREALME

Saturday, June 18, 2005 8:21 PM

Hi. I mistakenly posted this under a different thread (Firefly Engineering 101 or something). However, I believe that it should have been here. My apologies, but I'll just repost those thoughts:

------

I am a proponent of the Multiple Systems Theory. This is mostly because of “Out of Gas,” where “past” Mal tells Zoe that with the ship, no matter how long the arm of the Alliance got, they could go just a little farther. This could never be true in a single system. You would run out of habitable zone or habitable planets (even terraformed ones).

You would in a galaxy, too, if you want to be technical about it, but I suspect Mal and Zoe would not live long enough to run out of places to go in a galaxy.

Anyway…

I think the true answer(s) cannot be determined. In the related questions of “Faster Than Light travel or not?” and “Multiple star systems or one?”, I remain convinced that Joss doesn’t understand or care.

When asked in an interview if there was FTL travel in the Firefly universe, he didn’t say, “No”. He said, “I don’t think so.” Then he went on to say he’d cry if asked any more science questions.

I remain convinced that Joss doesn’t really understand the differences between outer space, a star system, a group of star systems, a galaxy, and a universe. I think it is all “outer space” to him. Sort of like how some un-informed folks might think that the Pharoah Rameses the Great, Alexander the Great, and Julius Caeser were all more or less contemporaries of each other (they weren't, not by hundreds of years).

I could believe that this misunderstanding in spatial scale could lead to “no FTL travel” coupled with “travel between several star systems in weeks” (which is CLEARLY impossible).

Yes, travel at the speed of plot.

If I’m right, then Joss, the only person with the authority to answer the “FTL” and “multi vs one system” questions, is simply not qualified to do so, nor has any interest in doing so.

And if these questions are NOT answered, then you could have various writers for the series assuming one or the other position and dropping clues that point both ways.

It’s sad, really, to leave such a hole in an otherwise great background.

Some would tell me that these details don’t matter, that it’s all about the characters. This is true to a point, but I find such errors as glaring as if the crew section was on the upper level one week and the lower level the next. Or if the Serenity was armed with lasers one week and not the next. It is a matter of getting the show’s continuity down.

Of course, I’ll love Firefly no matter what. I just wish they’d thought a bit more about the science aspects, too.

Maybe the movie will answer this question. I’ll know this coming week.

The Real Me, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

(The Real Me cannot currently receive messages from this site; he is not ignoring you. But he CAN receive e-mail at realme@pcibroadband.net.)

ZOID

Sunday, June 19, 2005 7:25 AM

TRM:

I believe you will get your answer to this and many other perennial questions at the screening. I just hope you don't get maudlin over the death of a pet theory or three. It's Joss after all: He likes killing the things we love, just because he can.

And I can't seriously believe you insulted Joss' intelligence. I mean, in one sentence you accused him of not doing his homework when setting up the premise of the 'verse, and in the next you compared him to "other people". If I were you, I'd steer clear of electrical storms...

Deiphobically,

zoid

P.S.
There isn't anything that happens in the show that can't logically happen within one system. I reckon it could even be Sol system. Given the power to harness gravity and rapidly terraform a planetary body (meaning less than 50,000 years), there are easily 30 terraformable bodies in orbit around our own star (including the moons of the 'gas giants'). Ergo, Ockham's Razor favors 'single system', because it's the simplest answer that fits the evidence (Mal's Southern-style, exaggerated figures of speech notwithstanding). The only way 'galaxy' fits at all is if you factor in JW being an idiot -- which you apparently have -- but I sure ain't going to. I think he knows more than you've given him credit for, and was meticulous in his research. The 'verse makes sense. Joss knows his sh!t, he just doesn't care for ubergeeky questions. Ever seen "Galaxy Quest"? 'Galaxy' proponents seem to be suffering from 'residual Star Trek syndrome'. Why does a sci-fi story have to span a whole galaxy, filled with bipedal humanoid aliens (with large breasts) in order to be satisfying?
_________________________________________________

"Sure as I know anything, I know this: I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDM'

YT

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Yes, travel at the speed of plot.

If I’m right, then Joss, the only person with the authority to answer the “FTL” and “multi vs one system” questions, is simply not qualified to do so, nor has any interest in doing so.

And if these questions are NOT answered, then you could have various writers for the series assuming one or the other position and dropping clues that point both ways.

It’s sad, really, to leave such a hole in an otherwise great background.

This is one of those rare instances where I find myself disagreeing with zoid.

Joss cannot abdicate answering these questions in favour of Tim Minear; I'm not sure Tim understands the difference between physics & psychics. Joss has given no indication that he realizes different answers to these questions lead to different stories, which has the potential to be a bigger problem than contradictory clues.

And in Outa Gas, widely heralded as the best Firefly ep (which would have to make it the best ep of an American series in this millennium, n'est ce pas?), Serenity was travelling @the speed of plot.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) Dave Mathews Band, "Dream Girl", from "Stand Up"

THEREALME

Tuesday, June 21, 2005 4:21 AM

Zoid,

I have the greatest respect for his work. Joss is without a doubt a brilliant writer and director.

But a scientist, apparently not so much.

He offers to cry when asked a question about how his universe is put together? He says, "I don't think so" when asked the FTL question.

Sorry, Zoid. If he did the meticulous research as you suggest, then he would have an answer.

Joss doesn't know for sure, and possibly doesn't care. Or else he does know and he is messing with us, which means he is insulting us.

And I have no religious attachement to the Multiple Systems theory. It is just that I can't believe Mals "We'll go farther" talk in a single system. Aliens don't exist? If they have only explored one or two system, why do they think so? Mal talked about a whole galaxy full of worlds. Why not a whole system full of worlds?

You are right. There is no hard evidence that it is set in multiple systems (just the clues above). But I don't see hard evidence that it is set in a single system.

I hope the movie resolves it. I'll take either answer.

The Real Me, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

(The Real Me cannot currently receive messages from this site; he is not ignoring you. But he CAN receive e-mail at realme@pcibroadband.net.)

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