What are the Alliance ?

POSTED BY: FarscapePKWars
UPDATED: Thursday, December 1, 2005 08:58
VIEWED: 10185
PAGE 3 of 3

PREV PAGE 1 2 3

PURPLEBELLY

Sunday, June 12, 2005 2:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
... in the traditions of state-controlled media...

It's not a case of the DG being carpeted by the Home Secretary, but the forces of reaction put Birt in place and ousted Dyke, regardless of their political colour. I'm suggesting that the Government in Firefly would be just as pervasive on the core worlds, while the border planets could be treated like Diego Garcia
http://www.theargus.co.uk/the_argus/archive/2003/07/15/NEWS105ZM.html

GTMAN8503

Sunday, June 12, 2005 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:

In short Alliance = Bad

Yep, we agree!

Your Heaven looks just like my Hell
--Uncle Tupelo, Still Feel Gone, Cold Shoulder

ASTRAGYNIA

Sunday, June 12, 2005 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gtman8503:
I've always viewed the Alliance in terms of American history, particularly the Civil War and Western expansion…

Sorry, I should have been clearer - I think of that one as a given. The extreme differences in technology and lifestyle between Core/Rim, though, strongly suggest 1st World/3rd World to me, as well as 1860s-1890s USA.

Quote:
Originally posted by gtman8503:
The nature of the Alliance doesn't matter to the overall story. To quote Jeff Tweedy, "Your Heaven looks just like my Hell." The Alliance's vague definition keeps people from forcing their political beliefs onto anyone else, and allows the show to transcend politics.

We don't really know if the Alliance was always going to be vague, or if we would have learned much more about it in seasons 2,3,4 etc. However, whichever way it might lean - left or right, or some combination of these - it would probably not be anybody's ideal government. It's been made very clear that the Alliance has no practice of equal human rights - they treat people completely differently depending on whether they're Core or Rim, have an ident card like Book's or not, and probably whether they're rich or poor (Simon's father getting him out of jail so relatively easily). (We don't even know that Mal and crew are even considered citizens; citizenship could be an elite privilege, like in the Roman Empire). Equality and freedom are primary values of both liberals and conservatives in the world today. We just think of them differently. To take your example of health care in US politics, conservatives see any kind of government involvement as a breach of freedoms because of the higher taxes involved and the information that is needed. Liberals see the freedom of the poor to die because they can't afford treatment as no freedom at all, and think society has a responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen and that the best way for society as a whole to do something is through government.

Quote:
"Blue Sun" also fits into this idea because large monopolies tend to be the result of government overregulation instead of rampant capitalism, as someone argued above.

Monopolies can be either government-instituted OR a company buying up/pushing out all its competitors or back-room deals between companies to stay out of eachother's way in certain areas, etc. By the way, do we even know that Blue Sun is actually a monopoly?

JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, September 6, 2005 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by gtman8503:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:

In short Alliance = Bad

Yep, we agree!

Your Heaven looks just like my Hell
--Uncle Tupelo, Still Feel Gone, Cold Shoulder

that explains it

ENGINEANGEL

Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:27 PM

ha ha ha. LOL. that's hi-larious. and yet so true. bad fox.

Quote:

The true face of the Alliance...

Sorry, could not resist.

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 4:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Astragynia:
It's been made very clear that the Alliance has no practice of equal human rights - they treat people completely differently depending on whether they're Core or Rim, have an ident card like Book's or not, and probably whether they're rich or poor (Simon's father getting him out of jail so relatively easily). (We don't even know that Mal and crew are even considered citizens; citizenship could be an elite privilege, like in the Roman Empire). Equality and freedom are primary values of both liberals and conservatives in the world today.

-We don't know if there are slaves on Core planets, given that we have only seen them on Rim worlds, but it does look very probable, given that they are part of Persephone, a relatively civilized world. Of course, we may be in danger of placing too much stock in Persephone as pseudo-core --all we really know is that the planet has been very successful.
Now, while the Alliance may very well be extremely unequal (see Book's ID card), there seems to be a certain expectation for them to. "I'm sure they'll rush out here and see that these tax payers are alright." I know, he's being sarcastic, but he is criticizing them for not doing so ...implying that they are supposed to, maybe?
As far as I can remember, we know of no nobility outside Persephone. While there are certain class differences apparent on the ship, they do not seem codified. Money is the only definite power. Kaylee herself against Jayne's accusations of classism by pointing out that Simon was no longer actually rich. Not being rich does not make one not a lord, etc., all it does is make you not rich. There is a clear class difference, but I don't think an explicit hierarchy exists. The Alliance does provide public education, which is generally a sign of democracy (even one actually run by the rich, such as the turn of the century US).

Quote:

By the way, do we even know that Blue Sun is actually a monopoly?

Well, it certainly appears to be. It is everywhere, and any competitor strong enough to survive would surely be itself prevalent enough for us to have noticed.

---------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

GIANTEVILHEAD

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 4:58 AM

I think that the Anglo-Sino alliance existed when they left the earth that was, that's why they all settled in the same solar system, that's why everyone speaks both Chinese and English. However, a schism took place during the journey between the earth that was and the new worlds. It took several generations for them to get from the earth that was to the new earths, it is highly probable that during this time people began developing loyalties to the societies within their own ships, loyalties which became the foundation for brand new nations and divided the old alliance. Those who were still loyal to the old alliance, or at least the idea of the old alliance, stayed on the core worlds while those who had became more loyal to the societies created within their ships moved to the boarder worlds. The core worlds decided to form a new Alliance and the boarder worlds became the Independents.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

FLETCH2

Friday, November 4, 2005 11:50 PM

I think they settled the same solar system because that was the only one they could get to. Unless the 'Verse has some whiz bang warp drive style tech we're just not seeing just getting to stars in our neighbourhood would take them generations. It could be that there was only one practical system in range.

I'm thinking that the Alliance is a relatively new event that happened after they got here. We see that some worlds are primarily chinese and some primarily western. If they were together when they left why not settle together when they got there? Besides the rivalry to get out there and grab real estate for their people may have been what drove the thing in the first place. We haven't come nearly as far cooperating in space as racing each other.

THIEFJEHAT

Saturday, November 5, 2005 2:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think they settled the same solar system because that was the only one they could get to. Unless the 'Verse has some whiz bang warp drive style tech we're just not seeing just getting to stars in our neighbourhood would take them generations. It could be that there was only one practical system in range.

You don't need warp drive to get to neighboring stars. In the Firefly future humanity has fusion drive technology. That is to say "A semi-controlled nuke explosion out the back of a starship to push it forward". Not to be confused with controlled fusion (fusion power reactor) or uncontrolled fusion (Hydrogen Bomb)

In Firefly, humanity merged into one nation and loaded up every human who could afford to get off the overcrowed, polluted, dying Earth. Once in space in several world ships, they took off for a nearby star that deep space telescopes had identified as having dozens of earth like worlds. The mode of travel was simple fusion propulsion by continuing to burn the engines until the ships approaced light speed. If you are concerned about Einstin's relativity equation...don't be. The trip to the new star system took little time from the vantage point of the travellers. Example: If the star was 300 light years from Earth, the people left behind saw the arrival of the travellers 300 years later while it was a short trip for those leaving. So the short of it is, those left behind were left to die. Or perhaps there are still ppl on the earth, who knows?

Quote:

I'm thinking that the Alliance is a relatively new event that happened after they got here. We see that some worlds are primarily chinese and some primarily western. If they were together when they left why not settle together when they got there?

I'm not sure that's the case. I think the unification of humanity took place on earth when the nations realized what a massive undertaking building world ships would be. Humans have shown throughout history a knack for working together when trying to survive. It's when the urgency is over that greed and competition sets in.

I think that the people who arrived in the new star system were the fledgling Alliance of China and the USA. In order to maintain cultural identities China settled Sihnon and The US settled Londinum, but overall the government that ruled over everyone was the Alliance.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

SHINYONE

Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:58 AM

the Alliance has been represented by the giant space ships that tower like a central business district. Those in charge seem to be military. The "sky - scraper" ship seemed to indicate an oppressive administration, and Mal mentioned in ep. 1 that they may have been scanned and individually identified. I get the sense of a giant intelligence gathering machine. the independants seem to stand for both freedom and individuality. The alliance for designed social construction. This was the underlying premiss of the film SERENITY as Miranda was proof of how far the Alliance will go to achieve "perfect" society.

Serenity (film) starts with an Alliance operative, he has a firm belief in "the greater good" he works to achieve. Which pin-points a strong ideology underlying the Alliance's aims and projects. The Alliance does not just rule and regulate it is seeking to create a "new order" that means a new type of human. Has anyone read "drinking sapphire wine" by Tanith Lee, I can see parallels in this vision of a perfectly controlled world, where even death has been conquered"

Miranda aimed to eliminate all violent characteristics in the population. How does this aim compare with the violent, anarchistic society on the outer rim? Also the existence of "business magnates" like Nischler (is that correct? from Train Job, and War Stories. Perhaps the Alliances solution to the outer moons anarchy is drugs rather than actual social engineering and policing.

I think Joss was dumbing down the complexities of the Alliance when he compared it to America.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3