how did river get the gun?

POSTED BY: est120
UPDATED: Friday, November 25, 2005 09:09
VIEWED: 20571
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OHIOBROWNCOAT

Thursday, June 9, 2005 7:43 PM

In the commentary Joss speaks of items having meaning. There were many "twigs" many "leaves" but River picked up this one - the gun. I have not replayed the scenes over and over to tell but I figure this was either Dobson's gun that was pointed at her head in the pilot or the gun River shot the three men at Niska's. Either of these guns would have created a new meaning to River. Thoughts?

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Thursday, June 9, 2005 9:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OhioBrowncoat:
In the commentary Joss speaks of items having meaning. There were many "twigs" many "leaves" but River picked up this one - the gun. I have not replayed the scenes over and over to tell but I figure this was either Dobson's gun that was pointed at her head in the pilot or the gun River shot the three men at Niska's. Either of these guns would have created a new meaning to River. Thoughts?

Couple of options:

1) River has some tk mojo as well as being a reader - who knows?
2) The whole sequence is about perceived reality - River perceives she is watching people's conversations, that they can see her (and sometimes they can't), then she perceives the gun on the floor - doesn't mean that it wasn't always in her hand, or that the "conscious" River dropped it in recoil, to have the "unconscious" curious River pick it up.

I like 2) better, but maybe there is something in "also, I can kill you with my mind" more than just tweaking at Jayne.

"I threw up on your bed"

CLAUDIUS

Friday, June 10, 2005 6:54 AM

I like #2 too

=================================================
Book: I am a shepherd. Folks like a man of God.
Mal: No, they don't. Men of God make everyone feel guilty and judged.
===============================================

SUBGUY

Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tallgrrl:
river was walking around. we saw her walking around. she saw the gun laying on the deck. we saw her see it. she saw it as a twig, and picked it up. we saw her do that.
the gun didn't materialize.
she wasn't carrying it around.

Also keep in mind, we did not see the rest of the crew around River until we saw she was holding a gun and they were all trying to get it away from her, so who could say we just didn't see her get the gun out of storage, whether it was in Jayne's room or somewhere else on the ship. I really don't think it was just laying on the deck as the scene may have made it appear.

Captain Pete
"What can Brown do for you?"

TALLGRRL

Saturday, June 11, 2005 5:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Claudius:
If River can kill Jayne with her brain, presumably, then what is to stop the gun from just being there using here "brainpower"
Yes I know this sounds goofy but I say this:

A LOADED GUN IS NOT LEFT LOOSE ON THE DECK OF A SHAKEY SPACESHIP

Not on purpose.
Look...SOMEONE--if not Jayne, then someone else-- left Jayne's gun on the deck and River happened upon it.
That's the point.
She didn't conjure it up, or was already walkin' around with it.
We saw her find it laying there. She saw it as a twig, and she picked it up.
And the brain-killin' thing?
I'm thinking that River, in a moment of lucid brattiness, told that to Jayne to fuck with him.
If she can't actually kill him with her brain, she can out-think him, for sure.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

ROCKETJOCK

Saturday, June 11, 2005 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STEVEthePIRATE:
Don't forget, Trash comes before OiS in the narrative. Simon and River knew about what Jayne tried to do on Ariel, but Mal was the only other one that did. That line was in reference to everyone else on the ship, in particular Zoe and Wash, since they were the only other ones on the bridge at the time.

And don't forget, there's no reason to think Mal knows that Simon and River know -- River picked it up directly from Jayne's mind, and neither's likely to spread the news around, provided Jayne stays a "good boy".

"Do you know what the definition of a hero is? It's somebody who gets somebody else killed." -- Zoë Warren

CLAUDIUS

Saturday, June 11, 2005 7:41 PM

Quote:

Not on purpose.
Look...SOMEONE--if not Jayne, then someone else-- left Jayne's gun on the deck and River happened upon it.

Alright then but still if a loaded gun is left there alone on the deck, what are the odds that someone else would not have noticed it, and put it away. A gun loose on deck is an obvious safety hazard. So in order for it to be left there and for nobody to take care of it would mean that nobody passed through that area from the time that gun was left there to when River picked it up. The seems implausable to me, because that area is a central part of the the ship, but I admit that it is possible.

=================================================
Book: I am a shepherd. Folks like a man of God.
Mal: No, they don't. Men of God make everyone feel guilty and judged.
===============================================

TALLGRRL

Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:57 PM

If you look at the episode from the beginning, River is asleep. She wakes up and starts walking around. Simon and Kaylee are chatting in the lounge, Wash is on the bridge and Zoe is there...keeping him company (wink)...Jayne and Book are elsewhere on the ship. Inara is most likely in her shuttle, Mal could be anywhere.
No one seems to be in the cargo bay, but apparently someone walked in and saw River holding a gun...that she saw as a twig...and called out for help, because River with a gun is NOT good.
Like I said, it might have been laid down to be picked up in a bit.
You put something down with the intentions of doing what you need to do real quickly and coming right back.
I'm sticking with Jayne put it down with the intentions of coming to pick it right back up, but got distracted, whatever.
It happens. Things like that happen.
People with toddlers put scissors on a coffee table for a quick moment. People do all manner of stuff they know better not to do. And that's how accidents happen. Bad accidents, like the kind where River hands someone a "twig"...and accidentally shoots them.
All I'm saying is that River didn't go get it...and it didn't just appear from nowhere.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard." -- Zoe

CLAUDIUS

Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:46 AM

Okay, Okay....
But why was it left there, and for how long?

That's all I want to know

=================================================
Wash: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
Zoe: We live in a space ship, dear.
===============================================

TMURRIE

Sunday, June 12, 2005 1:01 AM

During War Stories when River shot those guys (when Serenity had rammed into Niska's skyplex), she took the gun from Kaylee, River dropped the gun, and Kaylee was too shocked to even notice River left the gun there. Is it just me, or didn't they explain this in OiS?

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