UN Inspectors Told To Leave Iraq Immediately

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Monday, May 10, 2004 04:48
VIEWED: 25999
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GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, March 20, 2003 9:48 PM

Alright Kaythryn,

The US is into the war, where do we go from here...

Win it as fast as possible, then leave as fast as possible.

As soon as there is somekind of government on the ground, not nessesarily pro american either, pull the troops out, and out of Kuwait, Saudi, the entire middle east. As long as they are there it will be an unstabilizing influence.
Cut support for Sharons government in Israel, yes the Israelis have security issues, but so do the palestinians. The current course of action is going nowhere as Anthony Zinni said US policy is quite insane.

Oh, and signing and backing the international criminal court agreement would also be a positive step.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 20, 2003 10:53 PM

This assumes we have to "do something". We could safely ignore Saddam. He might have SOME biological or chemical WMD but he just doesn't have the delivery systems. He doesn't have nuclear materials- the "evidence" presented so far has been shown to be forgery. His participation in acts of terrorism against the USA has been nil. What's the urgent urgency?

Sure, he's a dictator, but so are some of our best buddies (just like he used to be). IF we really want to make the world a better place, maybe we should just stop thwarting local attempts and economic and political self-determination, and let the dictaros fall by the wayside. (Yeah, I know wulf will say this is fringe thinking, but I can point him to USA declassified documents. I think he's just afraid to look.)

Maybe it's 'cause my dad escaped Poland and spent some time chez Gulag, or maybe it's 'cause my daughter almost died after she was born, but for whatever reaons, the following book review is a touchstone:

“It is not so sad that people die. After all, it is the natural human condition. Everything that lives dies. It's that children often die without hope.

"As "Holocaust: A History" draws to its close, Debórah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt include a 1941 photograph of Mirka Grossman and a fragment of conversation between the little girl and her father. "Daddy," she asked in Polish, "isn't it better that today it's a bad day, but tomorrow it will be better?"

"Today doesn't matter," her reassuring father replied, "tomorrow will be much better."

It was a comment overheard by Mirka's aunt, Sara Grossman-Weil, one August day in 1944 as cattle cars packed with Jewish deportees from the Lodz ghetto rolled to Auschwitz-Birkenau..."

It's hard to remember that there are real people at the other end of our bombs and guns. But there are children just like ours, and families who want to protect them, people who cry like we do when their loved ones die. I cry about them. Don't you?

WULFHAWK

Friday, March 21, 2003 12:00 AM

Ok, here is my problem.

Saddam has long range capability, and has shown it today. He has the science and industry to produce longer range missiles yet. He has attacked innocents with SCUDS in the past. He possesses many kinds of illegal weapons of mass murder. Why, Sig, do you simply deny and ignore this?

Are you anti-american? anti-israel? anti-humanity?

You accept SOME documents, add wacko journalism, shake with denial, throw out the rest you don't want to see, and, viola', you have a different world than most of the rest of us.

France speaks French instead of German because of our meddling. Literally hundreds of examples exist in modern history (you do read history, and not just Conspiracy Daily?) accounting helpful meddlings by us, the US. Sure, we have failed. Sure, we have screwed up. The accounting ain't done yet, but we may actually turn out doing more good than bad.

...But we tried, and that's the key...you only fail if you try

all evil needs to prosper is for good to do nothing

tanstaafl

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, March 21, 2003 1:28 AM

Well Wulf,
For one, good and evil is a matter of where you are sitting.

The problem is any number of countrys are developing the capibilitys you are talking about.
What is the solution there, go after them all?

After this, many will redouble their efforts to gain such weapons out of fear of the US, after all no one can match your military spending. Other means become neccersary for defence.

And the United States didn't take Germany down, it was an international effort, Canada, Britain, the French / Polish / and whoever got clear and ( they likely could have done it on their own ) the Russians. Have you considered the reason why this war doesn't have that sort of backing.

The US has done some good, but they have also done alot of bad, and many are justified in their anger towards them. What of justice for them?

The way I see it, this solution is only going to pour gas on the fire, maybe things will calm a bit when Bush leaves office ( I hope 2004, but we'll see ) But your foriegn policy has brought the world to this point.

I was a soldier once, and as one I can picture some of the consequences here, diplomacy can only work if the other side trusts you, and is afraid of you. With most of the world, the US has lost the trust part, and fear can drive you into doing things you wouldn't normally consider.

SIGNYM

Friday, March 21, 2003 2:53 AM

OK, wulf, since you don't seem to want to do the work yourself, I'll find the links to declassified USA documents that were released under FOIA and post them here. What will you do then? Plug your ears and go "la-la-la" as loud as you can???

I don't ignore the fact that Saddam has SOME WMD. But remember where he got them from. Oh yeah, that's right, you think that's whacko, too. OK (sigh) I'll go dig up the info on that too, although you'll probably clain it's all forged.

As far as "our" involvement in Europe- do YOU read history? Or do you just read spy thrillers? It was the USSR that won the war. My relatives were there, in Poland and Hungary. It was the EASTERN front that the Germans were afraid to go to. So while we were sort of dicking around on a 300-mile front, the Russians were fighting on a 3000-mile front. They lost 20 million people, quite a few of those starved in Stalingrad. Or did that little fact escape you? In the end, as my MIL said, the Germans were retreating from the Russians as fast as they could hobble, by foot, train, and any way they could.

The USA would do MUCH MORE good if it simply didn't promote evil so vigorously. A good place to stop would have been when we were busy supplying Saddam with every WMD imagineable.

I DO give us credit for WWII, Yugoslavia and Somalia. At least we were trying to do the right thing.But how do we explain Iran, Chile, the Congo, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Iraq, Brazil, El Salvador, Iraq, Guatemala, and Colombia? Did you all know that we (ie Unocal) was in negotiation with the Taliban for an oil pipline? That the only thing that wrecked the deal and got the government pissed off was that the Taliban get playing us agiants Bridas (Argentia)? I'll pull up the corporate report if you want.

BTW- you wonder what I'm for and against? I am against evil, whether it's done by Saddam or the United States or Unocal. We're the most powerful country in the world, and have been for the past five decades. We should acknowledge our own rather large responsibility for the state of the world as it is today.

WULFHAWK

Friday, March 21, 2003 4:07 AM

Oh yea, I remember now, it was the RUSSIANs on D-Day, not my father. stupid me. And the Battle of the Bulge, that wasn't my father, either, was it?

And, whatever documents you dig out of whackyland, a) it doesn't make 'em fact, and b) who the hell cares.

You keep insisting Saddam is our fault. You are, of course, wrong. We tried to help, him, his country, the region, and OURSELVES. He decided to be what he is. Iraqi people decided to allow him to enslave them.

We didn't clone him, program him, and install him...nor did we we clone, program, and install all the insane dictators of the world, past and present. Like you, he took the path of unreason on his own, without any need for our pushing or guidance.

I know you don't get it, I know you don't care to, but here it is again.

You can't have it the way you want it. We, the US, haven't caused all the troubles of the world.

wasted words, I know, but what the heck

tanstaafl

WULFHAWK

Friday, March 21, 2003 4:17 AM

Gin, you don't seem to be getting it either.

How can a country, youngest of it's size, only a small fraction of the world's total population, have the influence you claim?

Could it be we've done something right? In fact, a long series of somethings right? You can't have it both ways (sanely, that is). Your anti-American bias is clear. Our success as a nation, and a superpower, is simple, incontrovertable proof, that we've done the right things. Ignore it if you like, I'll waste a few more words.

Hmmm, evil is simply a point of view? You lose. Mystical evil, service of lower powers, would be evil that isn't point of view, right? You're not saying that, though. You're saying that mass murder, indescriminate torture, ethnic genocide, are not acts of evil? Right? Are there any pets left in your neighborhood?

tanstaafl

SIGNYM

Friday, March 21, 2003 4:23 AM

OK, you said it yourself: YOU DON'T CARE.

Well, I CARE. I care about the truth, you obviously don't.

I care about evil done in this world, whether it's by Saddam or Unocal or the USA. You don't.

You want to live in your little comfortable world where you pretend to be the good guy and listen to George dubya and believe.

Fine. I'm going to post the sources anyway. These will be cerdible, solid sources like declassified CIA documents, testimony before Congress, Commerce department papers, admissions by the Dutch government, historical documents. Don't bother to look, you've already said that you don't care.

KAYTHRYN

Friday, March 21, 2003 4:53 AM

I think Wulf and Signym each need a pair of boxing gloves.

Either that or you two need to sit down for a few hours at a big desk amongst piles of declassified documents and maps with a beer.

Scratch that, maybe it’s best not to introduce alcohol to the fiery tempers.

Here we go, I say instead of our Firefly raid, (since we are hopefully getting all the episodes anyway) we use all of our stealth, intelligence, connections and resources to sneak Wulf and Signym into the UN. There they can trap all of those political people in one room and have it out. Oh, I foresee a three day shouting match. I’m sure after three days, and scratchy voices you too can decide on some cleaver course of action to save the world. If not we leave the decisions to the UN and the all mighty Queen Kaythryn has been voted into the UN. How did I get in the UN you may ask? Well it‘s my story so poof, I‘m there. Anyway next we box Wulf and Signym up and send them first class to Saddam in a crate marked fragile and perishable. Once there they will each get a chance to slap Saddam. One of you give him a hit from me please? Then Wulf and Signym, your mission, if you choose to accept, and you must, it is to stuff Saddam in your crate and put him in storage. By then I’m sure you too will be able to find a common political ground. You know what that is? It will be by being Queen Kaythryn’s --who has now completely taken control of the US-- ambassadors. I don’t know where you are from Signym, but I don’t care, you still get the job. And you both get free James Bond like cars. Yeah, I like this. I get a car too. And you too Merl. Because of Merl’s cross country research all of the world has united together in the unified effort for peace. Iraq is rebuilt, gas prices go down, Queen Kaythryn gets re-elected and Merl gets a book deal. Wulf and Signym get a TV time slot where they go on from 6-7:00 every night and discuss world issues. Somewhere down the line someone’s ear gets bitten and it makes front page news. This is has just gotten nutty so I stop.

-------------------------------------
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, March 21, 2003 5:08 AM

Well Wulf,

The USA support Pinnocet, Bastia, Saddam, and dozens of other dictators WHILE they committed these acts. The USA benefited from these relationships. I am saying it is a double standard to help someone commit a crime, profit from it, and then bitch and moan about it.

And your military strength has opened up new problems for you. No one can beat your army, so now the only options you leave people is bend over and take it, WMD,or terrorism.

How about Cuba for an example, I have been there, talked to people. The general option is more freedom would be nice, but we are better off now under Castro, than we were under Bastisa who the Americans supported. So why does the US take every opportunity to punish Cuba. Because they are a huge threat ?

Take your success, enjoy it

Just stop screwing everyone else

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