UN Inspectors Told To Leave Iraq Immediately
POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Monday, May 10, 2004 04:48
VIEWED: 25999
PAGE 9 of 11
Randy,
I'm not just asking for alternate courses of action in handling Sadaam, I’m asking for any other alternates. I mean ANY. For you who are protesting the war, what do you want us to do? You must have some idea. If we don’t continue on as planned with the war what do you think we should do? What are you saying in these protests??? Negotiate a little longer? Give him money like some people have mentioned? Just ignore these problems are and go on as if nothing has happened? If you want to protest the war fine, I have little problem with that, but you must have and an idea of what you want the world, or just your country to do afterwards- even if you say you don’t want us to do anything, that is still saying something. I ask because I don’t understand. I don’t want us to fight, I don’t think anyone really wants to fight, but I don’t see any other options at this juncture for handling these problems.
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
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Quote:
Originally posted by merlindrea:Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfhawk:
It is my firm belief that American reporting is the best in the world in most ways. Why?
Competition.
Actually, I don't believe this is true. First of all, almost all stations are private. Meaning they depend on the money of the advertisers to survive. So they are NOT independent. They make the mood but they also have to follow the mood.
Not that I posted the original, but I agree with it and as such: Competition and Independence are not the same thing. Competition should encourage Independence, properly applied, but it is not and does not guarantee Independence.
As a former jounalist and now as a journalism educator, there is no such thing as total journalistic independence. News should ideally be the first rough draft of history--and as such, contain as many viewpoints as possible. It is possible to watch ABC to get one viewpoint, switch to Bloomberg News to get another viewpoint, and then switch to FOX to get yet another viewpoint.
Furthermore, news is a commodity. I believe Merl expressed disappointment that CNN ran the same 4 clips over and over interspersed with "expert" testimony or whatever. CNN was not the only network to do so. Because all news sources, public or private, accept funding from somewhere, they are required to provide a product or a service. Public news considers itself a service and often performs as independently as humanly possible (and humans are fallible to greater or lesser degrees), but as such, provides the service for a limited amount of time. Private news organizations, such as the major 24-hour news networks, provide a good. The more a good is a available, the more it can be consumed, leading to demand, which offers money leading to supply, which hopefully leads to more consumption, more demand, and on and on ad nauseum.
Fox, CNN, Bloomberg, etc. are all competing for advertiser dollars and advertisers are monitoring our consumption in great detail to determine to what extent their advertising has an affect on our consumption. Like so: You buy a coke. Coke says, "How did you hear about our product?" You say, "I was watching news coverage on CNN" Coke says, "Do you often choose CNN as your news provider?" Do you often make soft drink choices based on television advertising? Will you continue to view CNN as your primary news provider?" Then Terrible Research Monkeys take that information and tell the advertising department that a majority of the 18-35 year olds who drive white cars and watch CNN purchase coke products. The ad dept. makes the decision to give X amt. of dollars to CNN based in order to secure further demand. CNN receives the money and, based on info provided by the Ad dept., alters their coverage to greater or lesser degrees to reflect what they perceive to be the desire of their audience.
Consequently, 24-hour networks never want to cease offering a product. So if all they have is 4 clips on a decaptitation strike (ain't that a helluva term?) then they will offer that product until a more attractive product comes along.
Ideally, more networks and more advertising dollars would create a situation wherein those networks strived to gain viewership and viewers demanded the most impartial product possible, leading inevitably to the "best" (most impartial) possible product. But information is not washing machines and as such, people will and should demand more with better. This increases the level of competition and starts the cylce again.
Ain't free enterprise shiny?
Those of us who agree with one another know who we are. Furthermore, I don't think anyone is really in the mood to let their mind be changed (even you, Signy). The war has started. It is happening. Hopefully the loss of life will be minimal and only bad guys. Then, the money can flow in and the aid can start and the embargo can fade away. Until then, maybe we should ignore each other until we go away. And I think that I'll try to make that my p
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Quote:
Accept it: US is not always the best in the world . There is a whole big world out there...
Other than militarily, the US isn't even among the Top 10 best.
Iraq needed weapons inspectors, but what the US needs are IQ Inspectors. The rest of the world can form IQ inspection teams to enter the United States and improve its education system. No major overhaul is necessary just remove the paranoia here and install some logic there... Boot the creationist minded teachers and corporate sponsors out of the public school system... Make more scholarships available...
With a smarter US, the rest of the world could breathe a sigh of relief.
mattro
Regime Change Begins at Home: No Bush '04
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Randy, you'll know if I attack. Trust me.
Facts? You are one of those half-readers, ain't ya? You read about half, then assume the rest.
I have not claimed to be the purveyer of 'fact' in this thread. I support reason, empathy, and truth. Facts, when ya can get 'em, are good, too.
Hmmm, I heard someone say up there that because american tv media are privately owned, they bow to government influence? Merl, I HAVE NOT ONCE told you to shup up, have I? But you should go back and rethink that. Maybe hit the dictionary. Somehow, you seem to not understand 'competition'. Let me help.
I want news. McDonalds doesn't have news, but would like me to come to McDonalds. McDonalds pays someone to produce news for me and to show me where McDonalds is. McDonalds has NO INTEREST in controlling the news, it just wants me to know where to get my lunch.
Burger King also wants me to know where IT is. Burger King pays another someone to produce news for me, competing with the other news program. Now I have 2 programs to chose from. Which one will I watch? The best news program, of course. Which is best? I watch them both to see. The one that gives me the quickest, most honest news will be the one I watch most. In the competition for my attention, they strive to be the best news program. If they slack, if they lie, if they are slow, their competitors will report it and take advantage, their veiwers will change the channel, the commercials won't sell, and POOF!, there's another news crew lookin for jobs.
Regurgitated crap from fringe sources, unproven radical theories, world-wide conspiracies, evil space monkies - I'll not argue with a crackpot. Believe what you want, hope you don't get too lonely way out there.
And what a lovely sentiment I read above: America isn't the best.
I guess that says it all for some of you folks. I'm glad to know where you stand. Let me tell you where I stand now.
America is the best. Maybe not the best possible, maybe not the best constantly, and maybe not the best forever, but
America
Is
The
Best
tanstaafl
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I just heard about some anti-war protests on the news where people we calling for a whole day of disobedience. I’m not saying all of you who protest the war are like this- but that was stupid. Plainly stupid. I’ve only heard a little bit so far, but thankfully all they’ve managed to do was cause more traffic. If you’re going to protest go about it a better way. That just made me laugh.
And I agree with you Wulf, America is the best. Maybe my opinion is biased because I live here, or maybe it is more informed, but America is the BEST. Those of you here who think the government is horrible and you disagree with what they are doing, feel blessed that you can stand up and say so without being executed. If you really can’t stand this country you also have the freedom to leave. Oh, and there are a few people I would like to take advantage of that freedom. 
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
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I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult to grasp. The point of the protests is to show that we are at war and you cannot just go about your lives as if everything is normal. NOTHING IS NORMAL WHEN WE ARE AT WAR. It is symbolic, metaphoric. Verstehest Du? Your immediate lives may be just the same. Go to work, come home. Whip up some dinner. Sure, people are dying half a world away, but you can still watch your episode of Entertainment Tonight with your dinner. The world is no longer the same place for anyone in the world and it won't be even after the war ends. And THAT is the point of the protests.
And Wulf, you crack me up! I have to say that your posts are really the most entertaining ones.
"...morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with" - Mal
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Hey Sarahetc, I didn't mean to push your hot button. And I AM willing to change my mind. The interesting thing is that we all seem to want the same thing: good for the people of the world... Even Thegn spends an awful lot of time thinking about the liberty for the Iraqis! 
The only question is "How do we get there from here?"
Then we are discussing means and not ends. (At least I hope we are!) And that is a topic about which reasonable people might disagree.
So, if you are willing to start with that goal in mind, let us reason together.
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Kathryn, one alternative to Saddam is not to have put him in power in the first place, which is exactly what the USA did. In fact, there are a LOT of dictators the world would have been better off without that we managed to install/ prop up.
Ok, you might argue then was then, and what we did were mistakes brought about by the Cold War. And now is now and we don't do that anymore. But we're supporting Islam Karimov, the President of Uzbekistan whose resume looks an awful lot like Saddam's, or maybe even worse.
And what about Saudi Arabia? I work with an Ethiopian who knows people who worked there (Saudi Arabia has lots of "guest workers") and the stories that I heard would make your blood boil. Here's one: A woman working in one of the palaces had a 15-year-ol son who was raped by a prince in the royal family. When she protested, they killed her son and gave her $5,000 along with his body.
If we really want to do something about all of these horrible dictators, maybe we shouldn't support them in the first place?
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I'm glad to be entertaining. My high school English teacher, Ms Mantooth, once said we were gonna have fun, and maybe, accidentally, learn something. I accept your thinly veiled sarcasm at face value. Thanks for the compliment. Have fun, folks. 
Ms Mantooth was a horsewoman and rancher, when she wasn't pounding sentence structure into teen-age minds. She told us once about a horse she called Satan, when she called him something printable.
Satan was a hard-headed horse, but strong and intelligent. Ms Mantooth was not a small woman, so Satan got ridden occaisonally despite his stubborness. One day, while checking some brushy areas of her ranch for foals, they disagreed on which way they would go. In the ensueing exchange, Satan bucked and reared, coming down in the crotch of a small tree, lodging himself.
Trapped by the neck, forelegs off the ground, angry and panicked, Satan began to struggle madly, ignoring Ms Mantooth's attempts to free him. Recognizing that the horse would injure or kill himself, and more that a little frustrated at Satan, Ms Mantooth took the only immediate action that might save him. She picked up a nearby deadfall branch, and knocked the horse unconscious with a single, mighty blow. Did I mention Ms Mantooth was a large woman?
She was then able to free him, and he survived without lasting injury. It was, she said with a smile, the most satisfying help she had ever given.
I'm not for war, but I sure wanna help Saddam...
tanstaafl
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Okay, this is the last time I’m going to say this because I’m tired of beating a dead horse. Everyone seems to have an opinion of who is right, and who is wrong, what caused this, and why we should attach or not, but here is what I want to know, and what I’ve been trying to ask---
All of you who are opposed to our current course of action (going to war) what do you think we should do instead? What other options do we have? The only condition I have (this is the problem I have with what you said SIGNYM) is that you can’t go back and change past events. I’m forward thinking and it doesn’t do anyone any good now to criticize past events.
- so far all of the options I’ve heard are give Sadaam money, and call superman. Superman might do some good. 
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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
Albert Einstein
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