Things that bug me about Episode III (well, just a few things)

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 29, 2005 07:01
VIEWED: 13242
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SMITH

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:37 AM

This is a quickie, but I have to agree that James Earl Jones' line: "Noooo!" was a little disappointing. When it's such a major moment when said in the original series (obviously coming from Luke), it just seems corny to try and get the same audience reaction the second time round.

"King of Swamp Castle: Listen, Alice...
Prince Herbert: Herbert.
King of Swamp Castle: Herbert..."

GAVIDA

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slowdog:
Spoiler nation.

2. And for that matter... that droid knows *everything*. Works with C3PO for 20 years, says nothing. Carted around w/ Luke & Co. through their adventures, says nothing. Goes to Dagobah- does he not remember what Yoda looks like? Droid has an agenda.

11. C3PO had his memory wiped and R2 lost most of his gadgets because....?

Well, I can not say I loved the movie, but I do not hate it either. It was an "ok" Popcorn-movie to me. Only had to remind myself not to think "star warsy" too much.

There were many things I didn't like about the movie, some I thought ok and even two or three scenes I loved.

Was I disappointed? No, since I went in with lowered expectations anyway.
Was I statisfied? Uhm.... yes and no. Statisfied in that it was a nice entertainment, not satisfied in a "Star-Wars-Fan-way"

But I would like to give you my view for an answer to point 11 of your list:

3PO's mind was wiped because everyone knew that he can't keep his mouth shut. And since he knew about the twins the only way to close that probable security leak was to wipe his memory.

Why did R2 lose most of his cool gadgets? Well, look at your point 2 on the list. You were not the only one to realize that the Droid has an Agenda and therefore they removed the stuff to prevent him from becoming all too powerful (this explanation is not to be taken serious

)

See ya,
Gavida

FRAY101

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:57 AM

Just a quick comment about the Leia thing - if you read the Making of Book, when it gets to the part where Padme holds Leia up to her, it specifically states that this is the smile Leia remembers when she's talking to Luke.

And no, I'm still not convinced by that argument.

_____________________________________
"Why would I want to leave Serenity?"
"Can't think of a reason."

Over 100 Serenity screencaps now available at www.destinything.com (yep, bought me a proper name!)

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 27, 2005 6:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slowdog:

It was probably the best of the new trilogy, but that's like talking about Badger's nicest suit...

That is one of the funniest lines I've ever read at this site.
Bravo!
Well put.
I need a tissue, I'm cryin' from this.

Ha ha ha ha ha Chrisisall

THIEFJEHAT

Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:23 PM

Revenge of the Sith. Man what can I say that hasn't been said in the 40-some posts above me?

I agree the film was better than episodes I & II. Does that make it good? No way. Not even close. Somebody above on this thread correctly compared "Sith" to the best suit Badger owns. How very true.

I personally believe that the worst part of this film (from a storytellers angle) was in the development of the reasons Anakin turned to the dark side. They just don't make good sense at all. This film should have protrayed the ideal that Anakin felt held back by his mentor. Anakin knew he was powerful, he felt it in his bones. To stand there and listen to the Council refuse to give him the rank of master AND know that the decision was reached unanimously AND that Obi-Wan is now a master and had voted...that should have stung his ego and pushed him to Sideous.

But instead we got the "fear of loss" arc. Frankly, it's not nearly as strong. And the constant remorse we see in Anakin during the film makes the eventual turning less and less believeable. The worst interuption of tempo comes in the scene when Anakin actually APOLOGIZES to Obi-Wan and seeks humility...which is NOT a Sith trait.

Here's the better Story arc that Lucas ignored:
1. Establish in an eariler episode that Anakin feels held back (Lucas did this)
2. In "Sith", bring Anakin's ego to the surface, allow us to see that he is furious at Obi-Wan for being one of the council members insulting him by not granting him the master status. (This did not happen) Anakin needs to feel berayed and want revenge.
3. Slowly allow the Chancellor to get in Anakin's mind and pervert his perception of events. The dark side is a path to the manupliation of the thoughts of others. Sideous uses this to his advantage by using his political power to place Anakin in situations where he'll be slighted by the Jedi then uses Sith powers to subvert Anakins view of things.
4. THE IMPORTANT SCENE: Sideous reveals himself to Anakin. The full blown temptation happens. Not "To save Padme'" but "To see the true meaning of the force and become strong" which in itself is an echo of things to come. Vader to Luke: "The Emperor will show you the true meaning of the force. He is your master now" Sure you can throw in the Padme' arc, but the main reason Anakin turns should be over forbidden knowledge. Have Anakin ignite his saber. It's the last vestage of his light side. Then when he succumbs to temptation and his percieved anger at the Jedi he turns it off. Have Anakin declare: "Show me the true meaning of the Force......Master" Scene cut.
5. Anakin waits until the Jedi have fanned out to fight the various battles across the galaxy and only Mace and a couple others are left (like in the film). Anakin reveals the nature of Sideous to Mace (also in the film) when mace stomps off to arrest the chancellor Anakin gives the camera the "evil-eye" look of a betrayal. He flips on a mini holo-projector and tells the holo-sideous that the Jedi are coming as planned.
6. Mace arrives to arrest Palpitine. The start of this sequence should be as shown in the film. When Sideous ignites his saber this is when Anakin appears from behind a Jedi (not mace), places his unlit saber into this poor jedi's back, and reveals his betrayal by igniting his saber through the back of this poor fellow (and thus killing him). Anakin and Sedious defeat the remaining 2 jedi but not Mace because he is too powerful a warrior. Somewhere in here Mace knocks Anakin out of the fight. Mace begins then to defeat Sedious. We should, at this point, add the force lightning part, thus wasting Sideous into a weaker form when Mace turns the dark power back on his foe. But before Mace can kill the Sith lord Anakin gets back into the battle by chopping off Maces hands like in the film. Mace dies. Darth Vader is born in that moment and Sedious anoints the new Sith lord.
7. The final battle twixt Obi-Wan and Vader is fought basically the same but for differing reasons. Vader's hatred of his mentor sho

GREENFAERIE

Sunday, May 29, 2005 2:21 AM

Bah. I bought it all hook line and sinker. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I really felt Anakin's loss at his realization that he would not be able to save Padme if he let Sidious be arrested by the council. I was willing to ignore minor plot points in favor of the emotion presented. It worked for me.

PATMAN

Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:20 AM

Some ramblings on the topic from me (if you've read this far into the thread, you will have encountered spoilers along the way, this post is no exception):

Here's how I'd handle Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, but just some more nitpicks before the turn:

While I realize Lucas wanted to put the pressure of the dreams to heightened the desperation level of Anakin, and to cling to Palpy's claim of being able to help with the situation, but if you were Anakin, wouldn't you want proof of such a claim before changing your allegiances on basically a hope and prayer? Lucas hinges the turning of Anakin on a time-element decision, in order to dupe him into making the only decision that makes sense to Anakin (the outcome paramount to Anakin is saving Padme from dying during childbirth).

Also, regarding how far along Padme is, I have a problem with the timeline of this film. Things happen from planet to planet, with little regard to the time it takes to get from planet to planet, and are we to just assume that getting to all the locations in the film takes a few hours at most? Seems to be, if there are long stretches of time involved, cooler heads should prevail in weighing the options. But Lucas structured his screenplay so that it seems like characters can get from one planet to another in the blink of an eye, which gives off that sense of urgency, but it doesn't quite hold up under scrutiny.

Was Padme 6 months along at the start of the film, and then 2 months pass by the time she decides to hop in her starcruiser to find Anakin on Mustafar? I have a hard time believing that planet was just around the corner from Coruscant. Wasn't it out in the outer rim? And yet, Padme claims that Anakin left Coruscant, and in a day, he was on Mustafar, wiping out the Federation leadership. For dramatic purposes, I suppose you have to give the geography a pass, but I have a hard time doing so.

How to get Anakin to turn without it seeming rushed and oh-so-arbitrary (as in "well, because he's suppose to turn bad, because it said so in the Original Trilogy, episodes 4-6"):

Padme said that Anakin would be expelled from the Jedi order if they found out that he had married her (Padme). Having Anakin, who is Chancellor Palpatine's favorite Jedi, getting too close to the political aspect via his friendship with Palpatine, and armed with the information that Anakin and Padme are married, have OB1 use this information to have the Jedi Council to confront Anakin with the situation as the issue of Anakin's entry into the Jedi Council becomes a thorny mess, and Anakin becoming a master is undermined by his marriage to Padme. To fix the situation, have the Jedi Council force Anakin to choose between Padme and the Jedi Order. Given Anakin's penchant for possessive love, Anakin spurns the Jedi order for attachment to Padme, it makes some sort of sense given his background. It creates animosity between Anakin and OB1 since OB1 ratted him out too, which sets up more dramatics based on the choices made by Anakin and OB1 in the lava duel later on.

You could incorporate his fears of Padme dying in childbirth, but if you bring in the rebuke by the Jedi Council earlier, and he chose to turn away from them, then you can lay the foundation for him to go train to be a dark lord of the sith as he seeks out Palpy to become his full-time apprentice (where else does Anakin have to go if the Jedi boot him out?), while keeping Palpy around as Chancellor, and then Anakin comes back later to wipe out the Jedi order with a plan of his own accord as he hunted them down one by one if he had to, while also incorporating Order 66 for the Clonetroopers to join in the fun, as his payment to Sidious for saving Padme.

In this scenario, Anakin is fully aware of the price he pays to keep the woman he loves alive. It's not a choice driven by circumstance, but a choice driven by the seduction of power of the dark side. Plus, it would lend more credence to what Ben tells Luke in ANH without making Ben out to be a big fat liar in order to manipulate Luke to a

HOBBES

Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:01 AM

I liked it.

Although as mentioned it could have improved in about a million ways, and eps I and II even more so. But hey, I think pretty much everybody knows how bad a writer and director Lucas really is now so there's that

Honestly I've always though that Lucas should just have taken Zahn's original Star Wars series (Heirs to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command) and used those to make episodes 7-9. Those were the best Star Wars books IMHO and would have made awesome movies.

Just leave I-III out, IV-VI worked fine without the backstory filled in more then it was.

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...What I am discussing is whether one should make what is likely to be the case and is reasonably impossible in order to circumvent what could hypothetically done but is highly improbable in practice from happening because that would be unrealistic.

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