Things that bug me about Episode III (well, just a few things)
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, May 29, 2005 07:01
VIEWED: 13242
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The problem I have w/ this movie was the issue of continuity. It's a tiny stickler, I know, but it's bugging me. From the time the Republic falls to become the Empire up untill R2D2 finds his way (back) to Tatooine and Luke, it's been only what, 17, 18..20 yrs, tops? ( I guess this shows how casual a fan I am, and expect to be corrected by those more in the know)
So here's the kicker. If Darth Vader was such a bad ass right from the start, how is it that..
.
1) He gets so little respect in Episode 4 by that Imperial general while on board the Death Star? "I find your lack of faith disturbing." The Jedi have only been gone for 20 yrs ?, and yet w/ the baddest Sith dude in the Galaxy right in front of him, this idiot sneers and mocks at the very notion of anything such as 'The Force'. Same could be said for Han (Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. ) Solo never seemed to get the memo either.
2)Exactly how long DOES it take to build a Death Star ? Seems it takes a lot less time to build a 2nd one.
3)In Return of the Jedi, when Luke asks Leia what she could remember about her mom, Leia replied 'Not much, she died when I was very young'.
Select to view spoiler:
Yeah, I'll say! I thought she was around long enough for Leia to remember things like how her mom being sad.
I really wanted to like this movie more, and it was better than Eps 1 and 2. But as 3 came to a close and the inevitable 'set up' for Ep 4, I have to ask.... How was this story screwed up so badly? The prequels should have been relatively an easy thing to pull off, yet much of it was just nonsense
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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To address one...The Sith don't go around telling everyone that they are the masters of Evil. If you'll notice, Palpatine never mentions it in public. But, according to everything we know, there are only four individuals who practice Jedi/Sith arts, and follow the Force. 4 people. And Darth Vader doesn't go around in public that much, that we are presented, and when he does, there's an assload of Stormtroopers around him. The Galactic Empire is pretty big. You'll notice that Grand Moff Tarkin can seem to control him, and how is that? Because Palpatine has appointed him over Vader, and Vader does whatever Palpatine says.
Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."
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Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
To address one...The Sith don't go around telling everyone that they are the masters of Evil. If you'll notice, Palpatine never mentions it in public. But, according to everything we know, there are only four individuals who practice Jedi/Sith arts, and follow the Force. 4 people. And Darth Vader doesn't go around in public that much, that we are presented, and when he does, there's an assload of Stormtroopers around him. The Galactic Empire is pretty big. You'll notice that Grand Moff Tarkin can seem to control him, and how is that? Because Palpatine has appointed him over Vader, and Vader does whatever Palpatine says.
Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."
Well, to be fair, Palpatine had a vested interest in not letting folks knew who he was. Especially folks like the Jedi. But w/ Darth Vader, the cat's kinda already out of the bag, what w/ the mask, the cape and all.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Ever since Episode I something struck me as odd.
Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
But, according to everything we know, there are only four individuals who practice Jedi/Sith arts, and follow the Force. 4 people.
Four people, two dark and two light. If that is the case the force seems balanced to me. How could Obi not see that coming? He never struck me as one to miss out on that kind of thing, and he never seemed the one to blindly follow someone else’s interpretation of a prophesy without thoroughly thinking it over himself.
In fact how could all of the Jedi be so blind? It was only in this episode that anyone even mentioned the possibility of the prophecy being misread.
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On to answers to the questions.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The problem I have w/ this movie was the issue of continuity.
That is a problem, the stuff really got screwed over royally. The odd part is that the books manage to maintain continuity in spite of being written by many different people with many different visions and yet these movies, the official events, totally fail to do so.
Regardless.
Quote:
It's a tiny stickler, I know, but it's bugging me. From the time the Republic falls to become the Empire up untill R2D2 finds his way (back) to Tatooine and Luke, it's been only what, 17, 18..20 yrs, tops? ( I guess this shows how casual a fan I am, and expect to be corrected by those more in the know)
About that.
Quote:
So here's the kicker. If Darth Vader was such a bad ass right from the start, how is it that..
1) He gets so little respect in Episode 4 by that Imperial general while on board the Death Star? "I find your lack of faith disturbing." The Jedi have only been gone for 20 yrs ?, and yet w/ the baddest Sith dude in the Galaxy right in front of him, this idiot sneers and mocks at the very notion of anything such as 'The Force'. Same could be said for Han (Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. ) Solo never seemed to get the memo either.
Well I watched the Episode and figured that was just another bout of stupidity, but then my sister said something to me.
I asked why Vader would go from, “I can overthrow the chancellor,” to, “Yes master,” when he was so much more powerful than the emperor. I wasn’t expecting an actual answer.
Then she brought something up, our friend Vader owes the Emperor only one thing, his life. He started working for the guy to save his wife, yet he is told that it was the anger that the Emperor himself pushed him into that killed her.
Then he convinced himself, quite quickly, that the Jedi were a threat to the republic, which the Emperor destroyed.
The only thing left worthy of serving the guy for is saving his life.
(Anyone who says the Emperor is more powerful consider this, without defending himself or fighting back at all he was able to withstand much more of the lightning than Palpintine himself, and it was only after a long and presumably tiring fight with his son that even that extended exposure had the force to kill him.)
So the logical question becomes what would have happened if Obi had gone back and saved what was left of the guy?
It was the love of a son that brought him back, Obi was like a brother. Could that have been enough to redeem him?
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How this relates to your question is simple, if his desire for power was left behind on that rock, and not revived until he saw his son in action, is there any reason that he would object to being placed below Tarkin? Not that I can think of.
The devotion to a single person is a passionate act, even if it is just as a result of a debt, thus it falls firmly in the category of a Dark Side way of thinking. So with all of this devotion and loyalty he probably would not object to being forced to serve in a lower ranking position as some form of punishment.
Quote:
2)Exactly how long DOES it take to build a Death Star ? Seems it takes a lot less time to build a 2ndNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
AURaptor wrote:
Sunday, May 22, 2005 13:20
I really wanted to like this movie more, and it was better than Eps 1 and 2. But as 3 came to a close and the inevitable 'set up' for Ep 4, I have to ask.... How was this story screwed up so badly?
Same. I really wanted to like this movie too, I didnt hate it. I think Lucas is still going over the top with special effects and forgeting the characters and story.
The light sabre fights and indeed all the combat happens to fast and doesnt convince me. Imagine extremely well choreographed Light sabre fights slowed down in an almost Matrix style, I reckon that would work for me. The Light sabre fights were just flash,flash,flash,flash,flash leaving no chance to appreciate fighting moves.
Anakins turn to the dark side was way too quick for me, seemed to be very little inner turmoil with him. It was like the flick of a switch.
I still prefer the original trilogy.
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I never really thought about it before, since so much of the novel's continuities are disregarded, but what if that was the prototype Death Star that was sitting in The Maw all those years?
Lucas seems to point to the novels, and ignore them other times...maybe that's exactly what that's supposed to be.
Yeah, I know, i'm reachin'...
Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."
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I loved the movie, all of the movies in fact. I have but 2 problems with #3.. fatal flaws (but I still loved the movie)..
1. Obi-won does not want to kill Anikan but he will let him be burned alive with missing limbs and no way to leave his impending doom to the lava. If he loved him, he would have put him out of his misery.
2. Padme would not give up on life after birthing twins. I think that the kids would have kept her going. Motherly instinct to be with her babies.
My 2 cents.
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There will likely be spoilers, but I'm not gonna shadow them, so be warned.
My main issue with Ep 3 (MAIN issue, which is not to say I only have one) revolves around Luke and Leia. After they're born, they decide to split them, take them to remote areas where Anakin would not find them. Leia goes with Bail Organa - not a terribly bad idea, so I'll let that one slide.
Luke goes to Tattooine. ... Allow me to repeat - Tattooine. Anakin's home planet. To live in the house where Anakin's mother lived before she was abducted. To live with people that ANAKIN HAD SEEN BEFORE. Not exactly screaming "low profile" here. Sure, Obi-Wan was going to Tattooine, as well, and planned to look over Luke, but it still doesn't seem like the greatest plan. I know Luke had to go back there because that's where he started in Ep 4, but it could have been explained in a different and MUCH better way.
As could many other things. At the end, Yoda was talking to Kenobi and was like, "Oh yeah, Qui-Gon just figured out how to talk to us from the beyond. I'ma teach you how to talk to him." Kinda like an afterthought. Alot of what happened in the movie seemed like afterthought, which is crappy considering I was expecting some interesting connections from Ep 3 to Ep 4.
Dooku dies 10 minutes in (Christopher Lee gets no respect). It felt like George Lucas was saying, "OK, Anakin HAS to kill Dooku. So let's just have him do it and get it over with. No suspense, 'cause people know Anakin ain't gonna die." Windu died, having never connected to most fans in any significant way other than the fact that he was played by Samuel L. Jackson. And his fight with the Emperor - perhaps the WORST SCENE of any Star Wars movie EVER. "Urgh, agh, Anakin don't listen to him, urgh, agh." Not totally the fault of the actors in the scene - I'm sure it wasn't written any better.
The more I think about Ep 3, the more I dislike it. I've come to realize - again, considering I said this after Ep 1 and 2 - that none of the prequels had the spirit of Eps 4-6. They aren't funny, smart, thought-provoking, moving - they don't hold many qualities that make me want to watch them over and over. I loved the scene where Obi-Wan dismembered Anakin and he slid down the hill and caught fire - for some reason, everything in that scene came together for me. Past that ... 
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STEVEthePIRATE wants to see Star Wars Episode 3.5: Kill the Furry Ones. Yoda lands on Degobah and finds it infested with Ewoks. Yoda goes nutjob and kills them all. Fun would be had by all.
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FROM MY BLOG......................
the first hour----boooorrrring! The space battles--been there done that,you know they are gonna survive there is no danger and it's just not that fun,I kept asking where my x-box controller was.
My biggest beef, was how fast he turned to the dark side. It all happened in a matter of 24 hours. He was about to turn in the emperor
to the Jedi council one moment and 24 hours later, he's mowing down Jedi children and killing dozens. Lucas was heading in the right direction-
the relationship between him and the council, the feeling of betrayal, the isolation, etc. but because he ran out of time it required this
gigantic leap at the end... a leap that simply didn't make sense or at least was understandable.
Oh! and wookies? WASTED! USELESS! POINTLESS!
I didn't as much hate the dialogue between Padme and Anikan,(I swear to god if she calls him "annie" one more time i'm going to throw a copy of the "annie" dvd at Natilie Portmans' head)as much as i was disappointed with its content. It didn't progress their relationship.
It didn't change or evolve toward something- toward anything. Her feelings remained the same the whole way thru- she was in love with him,
believed him and supported him right up until the end. I wanted their conversations to continue to break down as the movie progressed. I wanted his
desperation to save their love to be part of the reason he turned, but it simply wasn't there. None of that happened. a huge missed opportunity.
Yoda is completely wrong- again (He is clearly angry in the movie and anger leads to the dark side). The limp diminutive character (size does
not matter) that is introduced in 'empire' is long lost in these movies. The
hopping, jumping and quick flashy Yoda simply betrays all of what Yoda was teaching Luke in the swamps. whatever happened to the idea that less is
more. Just because Yoda flips the structure of his sentences, doesn't make it more insightful. "turning toward the dark side, Anikan is" is still "Anikan is turning toward the dark side"- that's what we get from the Jedi supreme
master? Lucas seems to use this structure to make up for the lack of writing ability, and he uses this trick way too often- it becomes very
annoying. Remember, some of yoda's best lines aren't structured like that:
"that is why you fail"
Get rid of the ultra silly chase sequences. phantom had the overly long and suspenseless pod race and the silly underwater chase, clones had
the conveyor frogger belt sequence and the jason and Argonauts gladiator fight, and this movie had the most of all three- the opening battle sequence with the distracting robot insects, the lizard chase sequence with grievous
(that was painful), most of all the annoying escape from grievous' ship culminating in the nonsensical landing of his ship. It seemed this
movie had either huge action sequences of quiet moments between two characters-nothing in between.
The light saber duels should be less complicated, not more. The simple duel
between Luke and vader in empire was easy to follow, had dire consequences,was unevenly matched (which seems to be a quality lacking in the morerecent duels) and was thrilling. The spinning sabers, the four sabers of grievous, the endlessly redundant saber sequences but in different locations, the lack of quiet intervals, the moving of objects with the force, etc. It all takes away from the clarity and impact of the duel. Each one of them had a predestined outcome, which would make the duel up until
the outcome the important and suspenseful part, but they were all the same- a repeat of the darth maul duel. It was all the same, over and over...
no innovation.
the whole staging of the vader creation sequence. It didn't work for me... I can't explain it, but it lacked the impact. Think of how kershner handled Hans' freezing and the impact of seeing him at the end. I'm not
asking for that, but in better hands we could have had a great moment.
There are more, but what is so disappointing is how low these movies have sunk. med
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Ok, this seems kinda silly, since no-one else has, but I'm wrapping this in spoiler space.
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverdeli:
2.Select to view spoiler:
Padme would not give up on life after birthing twins. I think that the kids would have kept her going. Motherly instinct to be with her babies.
I also agree with your point #1, but this one bothered me much more. In my opinion, Padme was, by far, the strongest character in episodes 1 & 2. Not strong as in "My Force is Stronger than Yours", but strong as in she had the determination to do what she thought was right, no matter what the personal cost. The only exception I could see was her marrying Anakin.
Select to view spoiler:
And yet, with two new-born babies to raise, she just gave up.
Arrggg!
--Bleyddyn
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