We have very little time left as a democracy- the Patriot Act, open-ended weapon against democracy

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
I and one of my friends have deceided to start a paper speaking out about whats going on and we intend to spread it on my school college Campus, so does that make me a terroist.

I have to admit that I'm scared I'm going to be put on a list or something..but I can't just sit around not doing anything!!

---

Good for you. Do something. I suggest getting a job.

Really, the differance is that terrorists acts involve criminal acts. Starting a paper is not in itself a criminal act. If you start the paper, and stack said papers outside a building and set them ablaze with the purpose of advocating a radical political agenda (as opposed to just drunken foolishness), then you've committed a terrorist act.

Odds are you'll still get on a list. Heck, I was on a list in college. Try being a conservative activist on a liberal campus. I got called out by the administration every time we a big-name liberal speaker came to campus. It was my own fault, speaking out, asking questions and all that. Do what you gotta do and accept what comes.

You can't get a reaction (which I presume is the goal of your speech efforts) without getting a reaction.

H

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Anyway, on the topic of the growing shadow of the Patriot Act, I'm right there with you. We're going to have to really watch this over the next few years. And then hope like hell we can get someone in there who will fix it.

---

The Shadow is defintely growing our freedom is systamatically being stripped away, but hoping like hell isn't going stop it, and I don't see anyone around who is going to fix it, action is going to have to come from average citzens standing up and taking action

give me Liberty or give me death , I think thats what its going to come down to unfortuantely, everyone is going have to put aside their fear or embrace it and show who has the Power..we have the power to resist and refuse and if we don't , then we are all just going to have to deal with the consequences of not doing anything!!

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
I hate to sound crass but wake up people or rather sheeple... its the fact that they are NOW saying that these groups pose some great threat..they don't!!

can't you see whats happening , 1rst it was alqueda ..now its the eviromentalist..next its going to be you and me!!

---

Crass? No. Lacking common sense? Yes!

Scary how you can't see the difference between a peaceful environmental or animal rights activist, and a violent one. Where are these FACTS you speak of? Back up what you claim with sources!



I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

I'm concenred that this focus on eco-"terrorism" (which hasn't even met the definition of terrorism, according to Hero) is just a rationale for sweeping application of the Patriot Act against legal dissent, and that it will not be restricted to terrorism in the future, since it not restricted to terrorism now. I suspect that the Patriot Act will be used not only against suspected saboteurs but also against "related" organizations and people. After all, this demonstrator has been seen with that suspected saboteur... let's get a "sneak and peek" warrant to see if the demonstrator has any information!

---

Let me see if I understand what you said correctly because I don't what to misunderstand. If they have a suspected terrorist/saboteur it would be wrong to check up on their known associates?
If that's correct,then how, if you knew or believed the subject was part of larger group, would you catch the rest of the group?
Or, when they catch someone the investigation should stop with the individual? Don't investigate where they get their money or training?
Any investigation into the subject is going to require checking into people they delt with.
I would suggest, that people engaged in legal demostrations and or protests would not be hanging around with terrorists/sabateurs and if they discovered one was in their midst would turn them in.
If they didn't, and had knowledge of his activities, they would be just as guilty as him.

Opus

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Really, the differance is that terrorists acts involve criminal acts.

---

here you go again with the right wing left wing stuff..you just can't seem to get past that..I'm beyond you!!

If you can't see that what is happening in this country is beyond political ideology, then so be it when the Crap hits the fan I doubt if anyone will care much about your views!!!

The whole point to all of this is that you don't have to commit any criminal acts to be considered a terroist....and obviously a criminal act alone doesn't make somebody a terrorist because if that was the case then everyone who ever commited a crime no matter what the crime would be a terrorist

if standing on a sidewalk and giving an opinion about your government can get you branded a terrorist thrown in jail or put on some government list... then YES I have a serious problem with that and no I'm not talking about some college list..

once again I don't know why I even bother responding to your post..

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Crass? No. Lacking common sense? Yes!

Scary how you can't see the difference between a peaceful environmental or animal rights activist, and a violent one. Where are these FACTS you speak of? Back up what you claim with sources!

---

this really isn't even about terrorist..its the fact that the government is now turning inward...

They are saying that these groups pose a GREAT THREAT!!!
how are these groups a great threat???? are they a threat to national security???? If So How, because I don't recall any of these groups crashing planes into the world Trade Center!! or Pentagon...if so what have they done to be considered such a GREAT THREAT!!!

the only threat these groups truly pose is to shed somelight on the activities of some of these Corporations..and again hardly a great threat!!

Today its these groups..tommrow it will be people who aren't Christians..and a week later it will be some other group!!! this is how it starts!!

..it has nothing to do with a violent activist or a nonviolent activist group..

These groups hardly pose a threat let alone a great one, if that were the case they would have been dealt with a long time ago the Ku Klux Klan which is a terrorist group poses a greater threat then these groups, I don't see the government going after them!!!


As for backing up a claim, I was resonding to signym post....and to another poster..so there is nothing to back up!!

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

---

John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said animal and environmental rights extremists have claimed credit for more than 1,200 criminal incidents since 1990.

---

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/index.html

---

*steps in*

Just like to point out that taking credit for a criminal incidents is not taking credit for terrorism. It just means that they are taking credit (or responsibility) for breaking the law on a number of occassions. Terrroism is rather different.

But then again, I wouldn't really be one to trust the "FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism" b/c funding is on the line.

I'd rather take the word of someone that does not have a stake in all this.

I'll just step aside and let you guys continue.

*steps aside*

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratejenny:
They are saying that these groups pose a GREAT THREAT!!!

they don't..it has nothing to do with a violent activist or a nonviolent activist group..

---

People who don't understand history, are certain to repeat it. Police and the FBI DID go after the KKK. Many members were brought to justice for their activities. In fact, using new DNA evidence, a clansman was finally brought to justice just a few years ago, for the sixties slaying of two young black girls. It hasn't stopped yet.

This is one of the reasons why that despicable organization gets more news now for orgainzed marches than for hangings and arson. The KKK used terror to achieve their goals and lost to a peaceful movement lead by Martin Luther King. Even his death couldn't stop what his brilliant vision had started. He did more using peaceful demonstration to bring about change than Malcolm X and the Black Pathers did, promoting violence to bring about change.

Sorry, but when a group of Eco Terrorists use explosives to destroy a car dealer's inventory of dozens of Hummers and Hummer 2s, or to burn down buildings, that's a terrorist act! Fact! These people, in my opinion (an opinion obviously shared by many others), are a danger to the general public, and should be brought to justice. Again, that's just common sense!

Here's are a few published examples:

San Mateo County Times Online ^ | December 18, 2003 | By Amy Yarbrough, STAFF WRITER
Police say they have a possible lead, but motive remains unclear By Amy Yarbrough, STAFF WRITER BURLINGAME -- Police and federal investigators today focused on a motive in their search for suspects who placed a bomb inside a Hummer recently purchased from a Burlingame dealership. A mechanic at Putnam Chevrolet-Cadillac discovered the cigar-shaped device just before 4 p.m. on Monday after the owner came in to have the car serviced, police said. Police evacuated the California Drive dealership and the block surrounding it, and the San Mateo County Bomb Squad was brought in.

KTLA | 8-22-03 | KTLA
A Hummer dealership has been burned by ecoterrorists. KTLA has a chopper over the scene. Video shows rows of Hummers vandalized by spray paint with words like "I love pollution" and "polluter". Yellow hummers were vandalized with black spray paint. Black hummers were vandalized with white spray paint. Video shows a large building on the site burning. Willa Sandmeyer is on the scene and reports that fire authorities are coordinating investigation with FBI. Fire still burning. 0642 hrs New video just put on TV... fire knocked down... but numerous vehicles vandalized.

Another report dealing with this dealer arson:
upi via bloomberg no url | 8/22/3
WEST COVINA, Calif., Aug. 22 (UPI) -- A pre-dawn fire that may be linked to radical environmental activists caused serious damage to a Los Angeles-area auto dealership Friday. Firefighters battling the two-alarm blaze at West Covina Dodge found a number of Hummers and sport-utility vehicles had been vandalized with graffiti indicating the involvement of the Earth Liberation Front. Also known as ELF, the shadowy group has been blamed for a number of fires at construction sites in the West.

Bay Area.com ^ | August 18, 2003
SAN DIEGO - The Earth Liberation Front suggested that a $50 million fire that destroyed an apartment complex under construction in San Diego two weeks ago was targeting "rampant urban development." The Aug. 3 arson on San Diego's fast-growing northern edge was said to be the costliest action ever by the ELF, an underground group that since 1996 has claimed responsibility for arson attacks against commercial entities that members say threaten or damage the environment.

WASHINGTON, Aug. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- As the frightening images of a massive August 2nd arson are seared into the minds of San Diego residents, many are left to wonder just who the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) is and who pays its bills. As law enforcement begins to look for answers, members of the public
should kno

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME