We have very little time left as a democracy- the Patriot Act, open-ended weapon against democracy
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2025 15:16
VIEWED: 18510
PAGE 1 of 21
Quote:
Violent animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists now pose one of the most serious terrorism threats to the nation, top federal law enforcement officials say.
It was just a matter of time until the eye of Sauron turned from the foreign threat- which the Administration has not only not been able to control but appears to have stoked... or even the flood of illegal aliens coming across our borders - to American citizens {cue creepy music} The Enemy Within. The Admin now claims that eco-terrorists are one of THE MOST serious terrorism threats to the nation!
More than the threat from al Qaida, which has already claimed 3000+ American lives? More than the threat from supremacist groups, which have already claimed 400+ American lives? So, how many people have been killed because of "eco- terrorism"?
Oh, about- zero.
Among other things, the Patriot Act allows the Administration to spy on anyone it deems a "terrorist threat". And, according to the Patriot Act, what constitutes "terrorism"? Interfering with corporate profits, of course! Blocking a sidewalk during a demonstration. Calling for a pension fund to divest themselves of a stock. Blogging uncomplimentary stuff about a company, causing- or potentially causing- a corporation's stock value to fall. But it's OK if corporations defraud their investors and bankrupt their pensioners because THAT's the good-old American way!
People like Finn and everyone in the armed forces should be insulted. As far as the Administration is concerned, they've just been jacking off the past few years, wasting their effort, health and lives on a lesser threat. So- "About face!" all you professional gun-toters! Time to turn them on {cue creepy music} The Enemy Within.
EDITED TO ADD: To avoid the confusion about where this discussion is going, and for the benefit of those who read threads from the top down (as opposed to the bottom up) here is a copy of our Constitution's Fourth Amendment.
Quote:and here is a discussion of the so-called Patriot Act
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11054&c=130
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It would be nice, when you post a quote, to provide a source or a link to the original article. This would provide a little context.
The closest I could find was a 2002 report from the Rand Coporation.
http://www.rand.org/nsrd/terrpanel/terror4.pdf
Here's the significant paragraph from this 350+ page report.
Quote:
“Anti-globalists continue to be a threat in the United States. This hard to define collection of ideologies is a loose network rather than the traditionally defined cell structure. The violence they promote is often difficult to defend against as it may erupt during a legal protest by American citizens. The loose confederacy created is comprised of coalitions between socialists, environmentalists and anarchists. Earth First -- the radical environmental group founded by David Broder -- has been particularly active collaborating with anti-globalists. Similar concerns emanate from other environmentalist special interest groups such as the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), who have committed over 600 criminal acts in the United States since 1996, resulting in damages in excess of 43 million dollars."
It's part of a section titled "Homegrown" Threats, which includes discussion of possible Al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezballah sleeper cells of American citizens, and the various neo-nazi, KKK, Aryan identity groups. Not sure if this one paragraph mention elevates the tree huggers to a top priority.
Now if you were just using this as a bait-and-switch to get in a few comments about corporations dumping their pension plans, I'd agree with you that that is egregious behavior and that any executive who proposed or implemented such an outrage should at minimun be required to contribute their assets to the plan and live out their life on a Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation stipend.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
The closest I could find was a 2002 report from the Rand Coporation.
http://www.rand.org/nsrd/terrpanel/terror4.pdf
You suck at searching the net.
I found this 30 seconds after reading your post:
Quote:
Terrorism by Activist Extremists Rising
By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer
Wed May 18,11:04 PM ET
WASHINGTON - Environmental and animal rights activists who have turned to arson and explosives are the nation's top domestic terrorism threat, an FBI official told a Senate committee on Wednesday.
Groups such as the Animal Liberation Front, the Earth Liberation Front and Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty are "way out in front" in terms of damage and number of crimes, said John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism.
Thats one article out of dozens with sources like the AP and CNN.com.
As for the topic, arson and explosives by an organized group to further a radical political agenda, sound like terrorists to me. I'd feel better if they stuck to the getting naked to oppose fur and carrying signs outside the local KFC. If they don't, they deserve jail.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
Violent animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists now pose one of the most serious terrorism threats to the nation, top federal law enforcement officials say.
Okay, where is this a bad thing? The key word here is VIOLENT! When any animal rights or environmental group resorts to violence, they SHOULD be viewed as terrorists! That's just common sense!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
You suck at searching the net.
I found this 30 seconds after reading your post:
...Thats one article out of dozens with sources like the AP and CNN.com.
Depends on what I was looking for.
I was trying to find the source of SignyM's exact quote, with no luck. Then I went looking for government policy papers about "Violent animal rights extremists" and hit the Rand study.
Quote:
As for the topic, arson and explosives by an organized group to further a radical political agenda, sound like terrorists to me. I'd feel better if they stuck to the getting naked to oppose fur and carrying signs outside the local KFC. If they don't, they deserve jail.
H
I agree. I expect that the animal rights and environmental folk will probably lose first place in domestic terrorism to the anti-globalization movement in the next few years.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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People like Finn? I can’t speak for all those people; I can only speak for Finn.
Finn has never found that the bloggers are a very reliable source of news, but then Finn has recently decided that much of the major news sources are really less then reliable as well. Blatant falsehoods driven by political or ideological agendas have been exposed on every corner, which has now resulted in the death of innocent people. Bloggers, which hardly have the same clout as the major news sources, are a periphery problem; the real issue is a media that has become more interested in pushing a certain agenda then telling the news.
And eco-terrorism? There’s no such thing. Terrorism is terrorism. There’s no “eco-” or otherwise. Terrorist should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. When PETA commits arson as a threat in furtherance of their political agenda they should be labeled a terrorist organization like any other organization that comments similar acts and pursued as such until the offending elements are brought to justice within the bounds of law. End of discussion.
And really, people like Finn are cool; and good-looking too.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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First of all, if you look at the Patriot Act and the defintion of terorism, it doesn't restrict itself to violent acts. Anything that "disrupts" our economy will do- including demonstrations that block coporate hq, stock divestiture, computer hacking (even non-destructive computer hacking) etc. That was one of the problems with the PA that ACLU pointed out in the first place- the defintion of "terrorism" is so broad that many currently legal activities can NOW be called "terrorist". The Boston Tea Party? It would gain you an FBI file as an anti-globalization "terrorist". And then, you might be considered and "enemy combatant". And you know what happens to THEM don't you???
Secondly, to classify "eco terrorism", even violent ecoterrorism, as the "THE" most serious threat to the domestic United States seems like pretty far stretch. What about illegal aliens? What about the crime families? What about violent international gangs and their extension into previously tranquil suburbia?. What about just plain old murder, pedophilia, kiddie porn and all the other stuff that usually turns our stomachs in knots and accounts for thousands of deaths every year?
ECO TERROISM??? That belongs right up there with the non-WMD crisis, the non-Social Security crisis, and the other non-crises that Bush& Co have engineered to to gain control. How many times do you have to get taken for a ride and you STILL don't get it? It's PHONY. Arson on behalf of a political cause is real. But the problem is already covered by arson, B&E, and other laws. To call it THE most important terrorist threat should be making your "threat to freedom" antennae go up. You DO believe in the freedom that the founding fathers hoped to establish, don't you???
BTW- check my predictive track record on this board. You'll find it's been 100% so far.
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Quote:Yes, well arson is not a legal activity.
Originally posted by SignyM:
First of all, if you look at the Patriot Act and the defintion of terorism, it doesn't restrict itself to violent acts. Anything that "disrupts" our economy will do- including demonstrations that block coporate hq, stock divestiture, etc. That was one of the problems with the PA that ACLU pointed out in the first place- the defintion of "terrorism" is so broad that many currently legal activities can NOW be called "terrorist".
Quote:I certainly wouldn’t classify in such a way, but then the only person I can find who is classifying it such is you. Since your quote seems to have no source. In other words, your whole argument seems to be something that is quite manufactured and not representative of real issues.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Secondly, to classify "eco terrorism", even violent ecoterrirsm, as the "THE" most serious threat to the domestic United States seems like pretty far stretch. What about illegal aliens? What about the crime families? What about violent international gangs and their extension into previously tranquil suburbia?. What about just plain old murder, pedophilia, kiddie porn and all the other stuff that usually turns our stomach in knots and accounts for thousands of death every year.
Quote:Yeah. One can say the same thing about murder. I guess that means we should ignore terrorism all together or at least ignore it when it can’t be labeled specifically “right-wing.”
Originally posted by SignyM:
Arson on behalf of a political cause is real. But the problem is already covered by arson, B&E, and other laws.
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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
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Quote:
I certainly wouldn’t classify in such a way, but then the only person I can find who is classifying it such is you. Since your quote seems to have no source. In other words, your whole argument seems to be something that is quite manufactured and not representative of real issues.
Wow! I went back to www.cnn.com where the news article was posted about 15 minutes ago, and it's been "disappeared". I'll see if it's in the archives or if they realy buried it.
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I guess it's news we're not supposed to hear. The quote that I posted was copied and pasted right off cnn's website from this AM. I didn't post a link because I assumed the item would be resident for at least a day and be easy to find. Nah, no such thing as censorship in the USA! At least the BBC still believes in freedom of the press:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4561059.stm
Article is dated today. And, using your own quote from the AP
Quote:
WASHINGTON - Environmental and animal rights activists who have turned to arson and explosives are the nation's top domestic terrorism threat, an FBI official told a Senate committee on Wednesday.
Hmmm... ring any bells??
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