Can you still watch The Terminator? Or T2? Or (eek!) T3?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 18:34
VIEWED: 9746
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STARPILOTGRAINGER

Monday, May 16, 2005 2:09 PM

A couple points -

On T1's 'originality'... maybe as a movie, but you do realize that Cameron admitted that he ripped off many of the ideas from a couple Outer Limits episodes and Harlan Ellison sued him, settling out of court forcing him to put a credit in (and Cameron's attempted at least once to sneakily remove the credit from later releases, only to have Ellison lawyer's force him to put it back), right? Cameron may be a fine director, and I'd venture to say the movie is better than the stuff he 'took inspiration from', but original is another matter. :)

As to the 'no fate but what we make for yourself', I wouldn't say it's done away with by the third movie... the third movie even acknowledges that the apocalypse was averted... for a time. It just wasn't forever. Just because fate _can_ be averted, doesn't mean it necessarily always _will_ be - otherwise it's just a different kind of fate, after all. I'm a big fan of not every ending needing to be a happy one, and, as I said, for me the ending of T3 was a big plus in what was otherwise only an average popcorn movie.

And the whole 'time paradox' thing? Don't strain your brain... all three movies are about equally silly in that regard. Using a combination of alternate timelines and allowing the whole 'predestination paradox' (where you had to go back in time because if you didn't you would never have been able to go back in time) is about the only way to even sort of explain it without resorting to even more horribly improbable stuff. Personally, I see no logical problem with predestination paradoxes - it's only a problem if you take a particularly linear view of time. If you view all the universe as a single four dimensional construct then there's no reason an effect can't loop back and be its own cause.

All just IMHO of course.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
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MANWITHPEZ

Monday, May 16, 2005 2:19 PM

I enjoy the predestination paradoxes in these films...There's even one in the Back to the Future tilogy...I mean, why is that date one of such cosmic occurence? Is there something significant about November 5th 1955.

I know Cameron pulled ideas from other places, but I really dug the way it was presented. As Gale Anne Hurd put it "Tech-Noir". I don't think it really succeeded, but its enjoyable entertainment. That's the problem with the other two, I think...they take themselves too seriously. Or rather, have taken into mind that we take them too seriously.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

FLECHETTE

Monday, May 16, 2005 3:10 PM

Has anyone else read S.M. Stirling's T2 series?

T2 : Infiltrator
T2 : Rising Storm
T2 : The Future War

Haven't got the last one yet but this series was far preferable to me than the last movie was.

SKYDANCE

Monday, May 16, 2005 5:06 PM

T1 was an amazing movie, brilliantly-conceived for the time it came out, and the two leads were well-cast (I don't consider Ahnold a "lead" in T1, because he was mostly just action scenes).

T1 didn't need a sequel, but then someone eventually came along with, "No fate but what we make." Linda Hamilton did (I thought) a wonderful job of portraying a person haunted by a horrifying future (assuming the person didn't just go into shock ... which was what made Sarah Connor the mother of a savior). T2 was a big-budget tour-de-force, and made me proud as a fan of the first movie.

T3 was rubbish. No fate but what we make? Oops, sorry! *laughs* We really meant, "Whatever you'll pay for." The third movie totally invalidated the second one, and was a harsh sell-out. To my mind, the only good thing about T3 was that it re-introduced me to Claire Danes (who I had love in My So-Called Life, but didn't realize she had gone on to become a brilliant actress). She stepped onto the screen and gave that movie a purpose ... even if it was lame when compared to the previous two films.

All that being said ... I lived through the Highlander 2 fiasco. Nothing could be worse than that was, and by comparison, T3 was an acceptable addition to the Terminator franchise.

________
"They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky and they remember what they are."

THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, May 16, 2005 5:37 PM

Aren't Terminator and 12 Monkeys both based on the short film 'La Jette' ?

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 16, 2005 7:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by manwithpez:
And, I'm rambling...

NO, actually you put it quite well. Perfect, in fact. I tend to make my little contributions here in small bursts of time, and a well thought out explanation of what I'm thinking sometimes requires more time than I'm able to spend on it, but you nailed it for me just fine.

If I could only ramble that coherently Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 16, 2005 7:39 PM

Am I the only one who found 12 monkeys a visually stunning yawnfest? I saw it (the ending) comin' a mile away. I wanted an ending I didn't expect.
It was mostly cool, though.

Unbreakable- now there was an ending Chrisisall

STEVETHEPIRATE

Monday, May 16, 2005 7:52 PM

Quote:
I lived through the Highlander 2 fiasco. Nothing could be worse than that was

Ooooh, bad. Bad, bad, bad. Why did you have to bring it up? Hadn't thought about that in a while.

"Ohh, let's make 'em be aliens." Great idea.

Morons.

----------------------------------------------
STEVEthePIRATE will probably end up watching Highlander tonight.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, May 16, 2005 8:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Am I the only one who found 12 monkeys a visually stunning yawnfest? I saw it (the ending) comin' a mile away. I wanted an ending I didn't expect.
It was mostly cool, though.

Unbreakable- now there was an ending Chrisisall

Funny I was just talking about this wih my best friend a few days ago. We were saying how as much as we like Terry Gilliam his work seems to suffer more than most from becoming dated very quickly. I always love his stuff first time around, but with the exception of Brazil, for me his stuff doesn't hold up to repeated viewing.
Certainly 12Monkeys falls into this category. Again maybe because as you mentioned the ending is very much predicted and predictable. I dunno? Weird.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 16, 2005 9:44 PM

Well, that's it! I am buyin' me a copy of Terminator today. Never owned a copy on dvd, figger it's 'bout time, what with discussin' it on this thread and all.
Are they gonna make an edition that includes the deleted scenes in the film itself?
The special edition is getting a little hard to find, and that usually means they're workin' on a new one.
Edit: Got the MGM dvd last night, wow, what a great transfer!!!(same one they did for the special edition, but without extras, $9.99!!!)

You have no idea how hard it is to kill one of these things Chrisisall

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