I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore
POSTED BY: JCKnife
UPDATED: Thursday, August 17, 2023 17:53
VIEWED: 13532
PAGE 8 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You know, one of the interesting things I find about FF fans is that altho they identify with Mal, Jayne, or some of the other major characters, they are most often like the older Tams- except not as rich.
That's a sobering thought.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Just because it's not politically acceptable doesn't mean it's impractical.
Huh? And I get accused of living in a fantasyland?
For an undertaking of the size and expense you propose, government is the only body capable of providing financing, coordination, etc. Some laws would also have to be changed to enable it. If you want government support, you have to find a way to make it politically acceptable to both the government and the electorate (remembering that this is the same electorate who re-elected Bush and supports "sanctity of marriage" amendments in many states). If you don't have a way of doing this then your idea, no matter how laudable, will remain just an idea.
Quote:
Altho, maybe the better word would be "effective"... So, when I'm considering solutions, I like to think about things that are EFFECTIVE. Why should I limit my thinking on the topic? That's like putting my brains in chains.
I tend to look at it another way. It's better to posit an idea that actually stands a chance of being implemented, even if it's less than the ideal. To do this you have to recognize the possible problems with it, in relation to getting it done, and solve them. Maybe that's why my first response to some suggestions here is to spot the roadblocks. I don't disagree with the concept, I just want to make sure it works in the real world.
This may be a result of many years as a software tester. You test software by (amoung other things)trying to break it. You imagine everything an operator, user, administrator, etc. could possibly do wrong, and throw that at the system. Then you note the problems it causes, have them fixed, and hit it again until you can't break it any more.
Quote:
You know, one of the interesting things I find about FF fans is that altho they identify with Mal, Jayne, or some of the other major characters, they are most often like the older Tams- except not as rich.
I find Mal and Zoe, particularly, somewhat cynical and distrustful of authority, but willing to accept the reality of having to deal with it when necessary. Zoe is often the check on Mal's impractical plans. But they all have an optimism that allows them to keep going on.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
You know, if you really want to do something about the ugly world you see on the news, quit watching it. Turn off the goddamned television and its morbid fascinations and look at what's really going on in the world (it ain't on TV or in the paper, and it sure as hell ain't on the internet).
Go outside. Talk to people on the street. Take care of the people you love and help out people in duress. If you're still plagued by the knowledge that someone, somewhere out there is planning evil against the helpless, then go out in the world and help the helpless.
All most of us can do about this kind of stuff is just try to be good people ourselves - look after our children and friends and try to realize that the twisted, evil picture of the world presented by the media is a very, very tiny slice of what's really out there.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Extremely well said, thank you.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Has anyone ever looked at why people get so over-the-top emotional about this stuff? At the risk of offending, I'll suggest that it's the very nature of sick, sexually related content that gets everyone so worked up. There are thousands of brutal murders every year, each deserving 'the appropriate level of outrage'. But they aren't peppered with the seedy sexual angle so they are largely ignored. It just irks me the way this type of thing turns ordinarily rational people into an angry mob and the justifications for it don't ring true.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
For me it's not the sexual content it's the children as victims. I'm a father now and the thought of my kids anywhere near this kind of monster burns me to the very core. I'm not over-protective to the point that I don't want them to enjoy life, and I know kids are kids and I can expect some broken bones and stitches and whatnot--all stuff they can recover from and that they brought on themselves in good fun (hopefully). But to think that an adult would prey on innocent kids to fulfill their sick urges...well honestly like I said it doesn't even have to be sexual. You heard the story of "Precious Doe" from Kansas City? 2 y.o. girl was beaten into a coma because she didn't want to go to bed, then left unconscious on the floor until she died a couple days later because her deadbeat parents were wanted criminals. When she died they beheaded her and ditched the body and head in separate places.
Talk about "special hell." I'm not a religious man but folks like that make me hope there IS a hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Yeah. I live near Kansas City, so I've heard about the Precious Doe thing repeatedly - and I don't even watch TV or read the paper. But it's been the buzz nonetheless. To be honest, that story, and the reaction to it, has been part of what's caused me to question the hysteria surrounding this kind of stuff.
The thing is, when I hear people tell me about it, it's as though they are getting some kind of secret thrill out of it. Now I'm not saying that any of them aren't moral repulsed by it. What I'm saying is that it seems to get them hyped up in a way that they crave.
I'm a father as well. I've raised two sons on my own and, if anything, I have been a little overprotective. But one of the things I've sought to protect them from is the kind of world view promoted by the media.
Personally, I don't think provoking outrage about these kinds of anomalies does a damn bit of good. It merely serves to raise the overall fear and stress of living and reduces the amount of trust we have in each other. If you think about it, with the billions of people on the planet, it's pretty amazing that things like this happen as seldom as they do.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
I tend to look at it another way. It's better to posit an idea that actually stands a chance of being implemented, even if it's less than the ideal. To do this you have to recognize the possible problems with it, in relation to getting it done, and solve them. Maybe that's why my first response to some suggestions here is to spot the roadblocks. I don't disagree with the concept, I just want to make sure it works in the real world.
If Linus Torvalds took that approach, there would have never been Linux. If Stallman took that approach, there would have never been Gnu. If Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and Madison took that approach, where would we be now?
Pere and mere Tam... they were pretty comfortable under the Alliance. They had a little authority, an estate, nice kids, hobbies and friends of similar station. But they were afraid of losing it, and unwilling to consider another paradigm- a paradigm in which their daughter was being mutilated by authorities.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
SargeantX-
I agree. I think we're all being convinced that "everyone" is vicious or at least untrustworthy because our media focuses on the most horrific, salacious details gathered from around the nation, and even the world. Coming at it from another viewpoint, I read in "Descent of Woman" that we think that humans are "warlike", "aggressive" "predators". But take those adjectives and apply them to the people we see every day- the "warlike" mail carrier, the "vicious" cashier. Those adjectives just don't apply to the vast majority of people that we see every day. This is a case where ideology has trumped our day to day experience.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JCKnife:
Honestly I haven't decided which would be the most effective: 1) a group that lobbies for new legislation, 2) a group that helps parents track known offenders, 3)or a group that puts political pressure on judges and prosecutors to impose maximum sentences. I think trying to do all three would reduce focus and chances of success.
(If this works, my italics)
1) Knee jerk lobby groups lead to bad laws. Its the one universal constant in every political system. If there is a group that takes a long term view (and given the emotive, understandably, nature of the subject, I doubt it), they may have some positive effect.
2) Otherwise known as lynch mobs.
3) Politics and the law should never, ever mix. The law defines the extent of the sentence, then the judges apply it - if you want a life sentence for every sexual offender then see (1) above, but how do you draft the law so it allows the 18 year old who gets caught up in the moment with his 17 year old, consenting (and by all accounts, statistically more mature) g/f to be distinguished?
"I threw up on your bed"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
I tend to look at it another way. It's better to posit an idea that actually stands a chance of being implemented, even if it's less than the ideal...
If Linus Torvalds took that approach, there would have never been Linux. If Stallman took that approach, there would have never been Gnu. If Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and Madison took that approach, where would we be now?
Depending on who writes their biography in these days of Old White Guy bashing, Jefferson and some of the other founding fathers had much more radical views than were actually put into place - the abolition of slavery, for example. They just knew that sort of stuff wouldn't fly in the late 18th century, and settled for what they could actually implement; no king - representative democracy - life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness (within then-acceptable wealth, gender, and race limits)- hoping that later generations would make improvements.
The fact that 90+% of PC users don't use Linux, and that I (relatively computer literate)have no idea, without some research, what Gnu is (aside for another name for the wildebeast) might suggest that they are less than earthshaking successes.
If you're talking about something that will fundamentally change the criminal justice system nationwide, or even in a particular locale, you have to convince a majority of the population.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
SargeantX-
I agree. I think we're all being convinced that "everyone" is vicious or at least untrustworthy because our media focuses on the most horrific, salacious details gathered from around the nation, and even the world. Coming at it from another viewpoint, I read in "Descent of Woman" that we think that humans are "warlike", "aggressive" "predators". But take those adjectives and apply them to the people we see every day- the "warlike" mail carrier, the "vicious" cashier. Those adjectives just don't apply to the vast majority of people that we see every day. This is a case where ideology has trumped our day to day experience.
True. I think a lot of this is just that the media needs to fill space (think of the number of news and pseudo-news hours there are available just on television now) and will report the most sensational events in nauseating detail just to fill time and draw market share. The very fact that news programs are rating-driven causes me to shudder.
Another facet is the habit of stereotyping. All men are this, all women are that. All Democrats act this way and all Republicans that way. NRA members are shoot-first gun nuts and Sierra club members are vegan tree huggers. People fall into this habit because it's more convenient to go in with pre-conceived notions than having to spend time actually getting to know individuals and their beliefs. Catchphrases are much easier to yell at those faceless (your prejorative label here).
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME