A New Pope
POSTED BY: Connorflynn
UPDATED: Sunday, May 1, 2005 17:13
VIEWED: 10298
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by xenocide:Quote:
Third: He was not a Nazi, since he was not a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP).
He was a young man living in a country that was in a war and was lead by a madman.
...and we americans ought to find some sympathy for that situation. Jason, unless you have dodged the draft or failed to register with selective services, I think it mught be wise to make fewer high handed moral judgements. I have some hope for this pope inspite of my reservations about his more recent past (I don't think the actions or inactions of a child should be held against an adult man.) He chose the name of a reformer, a peacemaker, a liberal.
-Eli
If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.
It's kind of hard not to hit a few good character points when the chosen name has 15 other characters to build on.
And while we are on high moral ground here. Last time I checked, the guy wasn't interviewing to be Jasonzzz or anyother schmo from around the corner. The job is the Pope. Sorry, he's got to have been better than your average Clintonite.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.
and you know this because you were standing there right next to him reading his mind? I know as much as you do about this - pretty much zilch on top of what his self-proclaimed and prolly self-revised history. You took it in one direction, and I took it in another in pure and complete speculation. No proof or disprove can ever be done - case closed. Move along, nothing to see here.
Ok, wanted to bite my tongue and really really didn't want to give it another try, but I was weak....
The problem with your statement is, that you only quotet the first line, out of context and ignoring the
"But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler."
Going somewhere and registering for membership = active doing, free and voluntary decision
Good thing to do if it is the Red Cross or another humanitarian organization
Bad thing if it is an organization that is part of a fascist and massmurdering regime
Having some authority registering you for membership without asking you if you even consider it an option = passive thing, forced upon you by the authority, no choice to say "no"
I could fill in an example for "Good" and "Bad" here as well, but that would be from the view of the authorities/state and I do not want to confuse you with it.
What I am trying to say is:
If he would have joined the Hitlerjugend voluntarily and willingly I would agree with you with all my heart.
Being forced into the HJ by the state due to the law at that time surely can not be blamed on him?
Of course a 14 year old boy would have had the strength and power to beat up every Nazi that either tried to enforce the membership on him or imprison him for not obeying, I guess?
(Rethorical question!)
Just imagine GWB passing a law that would put you within an organization no matter if you want it or not.
Then there is a change in the system and the organization would be deemed "evil" or "bad" and you would be condemned for being a member, even if you had no choice.
You would just say "Ok, I was a member of that organization, so blame me for it?"
Hard to believe actually.
This really is my last try to bring my point across, I tried it the best way I can as a non-native english speaker. Maybe I just can't make it clear what I mean.
Oh, btw: German Beer is overrated.... try some imported Czech Beer if you can get your hands on it.
Bye,
Gavida
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I would agree with you a common 14 year boy might not have the power or will or knowledge to resist, to vote with his feet and give up his life evading/fighting for something bigger. And that would be ok/good enough for your normal everyday ice-cream scooper.
this guy is the Pope! Sorry, not knowing enough when you are 14 is not a good enough example to set for someone who likely will be canonized as a Saint some day later. There has to be demonstrated sainthood and holiness - *ABOVE THE ORDINARY* - to be a saint in my book. What he did what exactly the kind of thing that puts him at common/normal at the very best. And there were quite a few normal people who did the extraordinary in those days - those folks might have gotten a pat on the back at the very best. And prolly definitely not sainthood.
See the difference?
And GWB *and* the Congress make up and passes plenty of laws that lots of people don't agree with. I pay my taxes any ways. *BUT* I'm not running to be the Pope!
Beer, well German beer is pretty good compared to the crap that's foisted on the rest of the world (except for TsingTao - but of course, that's really Holland beer)... Not sure about Czech yet, but definitely Bavarian and Austrian
Hang on... Got to email the man and let him know what's going on ...
benedictxvi@vatican.va
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
I would agree, if it was his choice to become a member of the Hitlerjugend.
and you know this because you were standing there right next to him reading his mind? I know as much as you do about this - pretty much zilch on top of what his self-proclaimed and prolly self-revised history. You took it in one direction, and I took it in another in pure and complete speculation. No proof or disprove can ever be done - case closed. Move along, nothing to see here.
Ok, wanted to bite my tongue and really really didn't want to give it another try, but I was weak....
The problem with your statement is, that you only quotet the first line, out of context and ignoring the
"But of course he should be held responsible for being registered with the Hitlerjugend by the school authorities as ordered by Hitler."
Going somewhere and registering for membership = active doing, free and voluntary decision
Good thing to do if it is the Red Cross or another humanitarian organization
Bad thing if it is an organization that is part of a fascist and massmurdering regime
Having some authority registering you for membership without asking you if you even consider it an option = passive thing, forced upon you by the authority, no choice to say "no"
I could fill in an example for "Good" and "Bad" here as well, but that would be from the view of the authorities/state and I do not want to confuse you with it.
What I am trying to say is:
If he would have joined the Hitlerjugend voluntarily and willingly I would agree with you with all my heart.
Being forced into the HJ by the state due to the law at that time surely can not be blamed on him?
Of course a 14 year old boy would have had the strength and power to beat up every Nazi that either tried to enforce the membership on him or imprison him for not obeying, I guess?
(Rethorical question!)
Just imagine GWB passing a law that would put you within an organization no matter if you want it or not.
Then there is a change in the system and the organization would be deemed "evil" or "bad" and you would be condemned for being a member, even if you had no choice.
You would just say "Ok, I was a member of that organization, so blame me for it?"
Hard to believe actually.
This really is my last try to bring my point across, I tried it the best way I can as a non-native english speaker. Maybe I just can't make it clear what I mean.
Oh, btw: German Beer is overrated.... try some imported Czech Beer if you can get your hands on it.
Bye,
Gavida
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Am I the only one who was hoping the new name would be Pope Urban IX?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Am I the only one who was hoping the new name would be Pope Urban IX?
I was listening to the radio this morning and thought hmm.. how about "Pope Diddy I"
PS: How did a discussion about the Pope turn into a who is, who isn't a Nazi discussion?
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Guy on Usenet suggested Pope Peter Gabriel (named for the Apostle and the Archangel). 
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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How about Pope Serenity the 1st.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
PS: How did a discussion about the Pope turn into a who is, who isn't a Nazi discussion?
And, I want to talk some more about those really cool chick violinists...
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email his holiness at benedictxvi@vatican.va
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Whatever the leanings (political or otherwise) of the current Pope he must be U.S. aproved otherwise you blokes would be invading the Vatican about now for a spot of regime change.
And acording to Nostradamus (and Brother Malachy)there will be only one more Pope after this one. He will be the anti-Christ and bring about Armageddon... Cardinal Wolfowitz perhaps?
Or Cardinal Swarzenegger.
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I vote for Pope Serenity! Now, we just have to infiltrate the conclave with FF-loving Cardinals! Remember, it requires many years of celibacy to become a Cardinal -if you're honest- which of course we all are! How many volunteers???? 
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