Interstellar or Interplanetary?

POSTED BY: Galfridus
UPDATED: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:02
VIEWED: 19917
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THEGN

Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:39 PM

Somehow that doesn't answer anything from a stand point of plausiblity. The nearest galaxy would take billions of years to reach and then you would still have the same problems there as you do in this one.

If you want to consider it scientifically plausible, you can't take either introduction as literal.

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In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

DELVO

Saturday, October 26, 2002 2:33 PM

Um, Thegn, you're looking at it wrong: the huge distance travelled doesn't just make the whole thing about not having FTL travel implausible, it proves that they must have FTL travel.

THEGN

Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:27 PM

I don't think I'm looking at it wrong, necessarily. I understand what it implies. The problem is that what it implies is NOT scientifically plausible. But I guess it's a small matter.

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In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

MARK

Friday, November 8, 2002 1:43 PM

Let's look at it this way...

We know that the show is 500 years in the future, so realistically, if it's a new solar system we're talking about then they must have FTL flight in order to get the Earth's population out there in under five hundred years... And that leaves out the time it takes to start all these colonies and the time until we leave Earth from now.

Possibility one - Earth was used up a LONG time ago and the human race took cryo stasis ships from Earth to this new system/galaxy and they ignore the time spent in transit as no-one experianced it. Firefly could be set a million years in the future but with the collective age of humanity essentially only advanced 100 years.

There is no way, even in a Trinary system, you could pack in hundreds of planets... So how about this... A Blue Giant orbited by a few dozen Red Dwarves? That would give you a couple of dozen systems, all within easy reach, of each other, each with a habitable zone capable of holding three or four worlds that could technically be classed as moons... You could maybe squeeze fifty or sixty worlds in that way... Make it a small black hole instead of a Blue Giant and you could have a sphere of hundreds of Red Dwarves or larger orbiting, each with four or five planets... There you have humanity's new home.

Implausible but possible.

Mark

"Oops" Shannon Foraker, Ashes of Victory

RHEA

Friday, November 8, 2002 5:03 PM

Um...don't we already know from the new opening that it's a galaxy, not a single star system? Have I missed something?

Is there any reason why it couldn't just be other locations in the Milky Way galaxy?

Forgive this oh-so-ignorant person.

MARK

Friday, November 8, 2002 6:28 PM

Being in England, I haven't seen the new opening yet, although I am downloading all the episodes a soon as I can...

Still, I think all this comment is over Serenity's drive system. We know that she has a standard radion accelerator core, but I think everyone would like to know how she goes FTL. The drive, the top speed ect. Everything said so far (Up to Jaynestown for me) has indicated that it's a single system and we haven't seen any signs of ships going into warp or whatever they do... If Joss could clear up the details I think everyone would be happier.

He just needs to hang with David Weber for a few days. Dave would sort him out.

Mark

HAPLO721

Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:09 AM

Here's a quote from http://beyondheroes2.tripod.com/stars.htm :

"An excellent example is the nearby solar-like stars Alpha Centauri A and B. They orbit each other at an average distance of 23 AU, however the eccentricities of each orbit bring them to as close to 11 AU and as far as 35 AU. Numerical simulations by Paul Weigert at University of Toronto have shown that each star has a 'safe zone' about 3 AU in radius in which planets could safely survive for billions of years. Objects placed further out from each star than about 3 AU are dynamically ejected in a matter of millions of years or less. Alpha Cen A is about 1.5 times as luminous as our Sun, and Alpha Cen B is about .45 times as luminous as our Sun, and if you do the simple physics, one can see that a 'habitable zone' exists around BOTH stars within the 3 AU dynamic 'safe zone.' Indeed, it could be possible that BOTH Alpha Cen A and B have planets conducive to life. Theoretical models age them anywhere from 3-8 Gyr... plenty of time for life to develop if the planets have the right conditions..."

In addition, a report at http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1994A%26A...292..
115A theorizes that the Alpha/Proxima Centauri system is gravitically linked to others, including:
Gliese 140.1
Gliese 676
ADS 10288 (Gliese 649.1)
and six single stars.

Not sure how far these other stars are from Alpha Centauri, though.

According to http://www.solstation.com/stars/alp-cent3.htm :

In a binary system, a planet must not be located too far away from its "home" star or its orbit will be unstable. If that distance exceeds about one fifth of the closest approach of the other star, then the gravitational pull of that second star can disrupt the orbit of the planet. Recent numerical integrations, however, suggest that stable planetary orbits exist: within three AUs (four AUs for retrograde orbits) of either Alpha Centauri A or B in the plane of the binary's orbit; only as far as 0.23 AU for 90-degree inclined orbits; and beyond 70 AUs for planets circling both stars (Weigert and Holman, 1997). Hence, under optimal conditions, either Alpha Centauri A and B could hold four inner rocky planets like the Solar System: Mercury (0.4 AU), Venus (0.7 AU), Earth (1 AU) and Mars (1.5 AUs).

So...

It could be that the "core planets" are those orbiting one or the other of the stars, and the rim planets orbit both at 70+ AUs.

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

FARADAY

Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:46 AM

A few random points...

- Several times they refer to some of the worlds as "moons", a statement supported by the sky background in the beginning of Train Job.

- The Hands of Blue guys say they've travelled 86 million miles like it's some kind of large distance.

- The voyage from Persephone to Jiangyin (time between Shindig and Safe) was "nearly a month". The voyage from somewhere to Greenleaf via the roundabout route they were taking took a week (Out of Gas). The voyage from Triumph to Beaumont was also a week (Our Mrs Reynolds). So clearly travel times, and time passage between episodes, can be awhile.

- Their terraforming technology is apparently very advanced, since Mal describes them as being able to alter gravity as well as atmosphere.

If we assume for a moment that this near-magical terraforming tech would allow them to transform a moon of Saturn, say, into a desert-like world like we see in the show, then habitation zones and whatnot become somewhat moot.

Granted, such terraforming technology is far beyond anything envisioned by today's science, and flies in the face of more than a few laws of physics. But then again, so does FTL and wormhole travel. I find the one no less plausible than the other, personally.

HAPLO721

Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:06 AM

The main criterion for a habitable zone is temperature. If the planet's too hot, all the water boils away. If it's too cold, it all freezes. Terraforming only transforms the surface conditions and atmosphere; it does not render that region of space hotter or colder. Thus the question of habitable zones is far from moot, unless these planets all have global climate control. I'd think that the reference to planets having Earthlike gravity means that they actually looked for planets with appropriate gravitation, rather than altering what was already there.

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

FARADAY

Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:12 AM

All depends on how you interpret it. I read that as meaning they have some control over the gravity, not just good choices. And if they can control gravity, why not temperature. But it's all a matter of how you want to look at it.

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