StarGate "Zat Guns" and "freezing while travelling Wormholes

POSTED BY: Gavida
UPDATED: Monday, April 18, 2005 14:09
VIEWED: 6428
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KELLAINA

Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:11 PM

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Originally posted by Rat:
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Originally posted by Kellaina:
result of not having a DHD (some kind of stabilization thing), and that they simply adjusted the gate program to compensate.

Actually, I think they do explain it that way! But like you, I can't remember where it was from!

Oh, good, it's not just me then!

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What I want to know about the Zatguns, is why when they shoot someone, that someone is stunned. But when someone shoots them, they shake it off!

'Cause SG-1 is special? Honestly I don't know, but I suspect that like Terranell said, it's dependent on the plot.

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BTW, I like season 8!!

I want to! I'm looking forward to some of the episodes later in the season, I've heard they're pretty good.

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

RAE

Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:33 PM

Anyone know when season 8 is supposed to be released on dvd?

Rae

LORDKAFER

Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:33 PM

In the movies Daniel Jackson is obviously rattled and is told, "Keep moving, it wears off in a moment." In all these scenes just after the wormhole trip there is what looks like snow flakes on all the characters and their skin is wet. French Stewart appears to have a frosted face and some of the soldier’s goggles appear to be iced up. Why Daniel’s face is not frosted as well seems wrong as he travelled through last.

To say that there is no "freezing" in the movies seems to be inaccurate. Yes - the freezing is far more apparent in the series. I think they tried to keep some continuity to the movie but ended up outdoing the original.

GAVIDA

Friday, April 15, 2005 8:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
That's a good idea as to Ra's troops being "hosted" among the other System Lords.

I kinda got the impression though that (before Ra's death), the most powerful System Lords were Heru'ur (Ra's son and thus part of Ra's household), Apophis (leader of the "official opposition"), and Solkar (who mostly kept to himself).

Hmm, so it could also be assumed that Ra not only garrisoned the planets under his control with his Jaffa and used them to protect his territory against some power hungry Goa'uld, but as well could have sent some troops to Heru'ur to keep his son a strong force too.
(probably the second most powerful System Lord after himself)

That would speak for the theory of taking humans as bodyguards to Abydos as well (imo).
Leave the troops that can do battle as defense in the homesystems (for a lack of a better word), strengthen the son with backups from the own troops so he is able to hold any other System Lord who tries to go for the power at bay (sp?) until he comes back from his trip to Abydos and could take over command in the defense and the probable retaliation himself.

Humans in armour and equipped with staff weapons would still be more than enough against some lowtech population that could.... well.... throw rocks at them, wouldn't they?

I really have to order Season 7 soon at the pace I am watching the show right now :)

See ya,
Gavida

GAVIDA

Friday, April 15, 2005 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LordKafer:
In the movies Daniel Jackson is obviously rattled and is told, "Keep moving, it wears off in a moment." In all these scenes just after the wormhole trip there is what looks like snow flakes on all the characters and their skin is wet. French Stewart appears to have a frosted face and some of the soldier’s goggles appear to be iced up. Why Daniel’s face is not frosted as well seems wrong as he travelled through last.

To say that there is no "freezing" in the movies seems to be inaccurate. Yes - the freezing is far more apparent in the series. I think they tried to keep some continuity to the movie but ended up outdoing the original.

Definetly have to rewatch the movie, it has been so long!

But I once realized that I prefer the show to the movie after watching some episodes and watching a rerun of the movie on TV.
Maybe it is because the movie is missing the dry humour and charme the series has.
Or it is just that after so many hours of SG-1 the characters in the movie seem to be "wrong" because of the different actors.

Regarding continuity, I am not sure what you mean by "outdoing the original".
Did you mean, they overshot, or did you mean they made it work better in the series than in the movie?

And a trivia sidenote to continuity stuff:
The character in the movie was "Jack O'Neil" and in the series it is "Jack O'Neill" (RDA more than once states "O'Neill, with two L")

Not sure if it was a mistake in the show script, or if it was for legal reasons.

See ya,
Gavida

MAJORCLOD

Friday, April 15, 2005 12:55 PM

I remember in an earlier SG1 Episode, where Sam finds out about her old man getting sick. O'niell is being pestered by a reporter trying to find out about the stargate program. He says something along the lines of "It's O'niell, with two L's. There's another Colonel O'niell with one who has no sense of humour at all".

He is referring to Kurt Russell's portrayal of Jack in the movie.

As far as working out reasons why Ra did not have Jaffa bodyguards, I always like to think they were servant Goa'uld. We've seen many servant Goa'uld in the show before.

There are too many continuity differences between the shows to count. There was no such thing as Goa'uld symbiotes, Jaffa, DHD's etc in the film. I think they've done quite a decent job of expanding on the film.

LORDKAFER

Saturday, April 16, 2005 5:13 AM

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Originally posted by GAVIDA:
Regarding continuity, I am not sure what you mean by "outdoing the original".
Did you mean, they overshot, or did you mean they made it work better in the series than in the movie?

Hmmm, perhaps I’ll leave that ambiguous. For one thing, I don’t own season one on DVD and it’s been a long time since I saw the pilot so my memory of the representation is hazy at best. Certainly though it seems to have been far more noticeable an effect and in that sense it must “work better”. However, that being said, I’ve seen many effects on the series that were dumbed down for TV (probably more because of budget concerns than disrespect for the audience) such as makeup used to show that the character is freezing.

Don’t get me wrong though, I love the series! I like the movie too, but the series is my favourite (when referring to Stargate – Firefly is my true favourite of course:). I’m just not rich enough to buy the TV DVD’s yet.

Quote:
Originally posted by MAJORCLOD:
As far as working out reasons why Ra did not have Jaffa bodyguards, I always like to think they were servant Goa'uld. We've seen many servant Goa'uld in the show before.

Actually that makes a whole lotta sense to me. The other theories I’ve read never settled why there would be more than one type of helmet amongst Ra’s soldiers. There was the hawk helmet of Horus and the jackal helmet of Anubis for instance, both of which have more elaborate workings than the standard Jaffa helmet as seen on TV. Perhaps he has conquered those respective leaders and now he fancies himself some sort of Super Go’auld. Perhaps that’s why Ra’s helmet, a very human face, is so different from any other Goa’uld.

Of course these wouldn’t necessarily have to be the real Anubis and Horus. Maybe Ra made the helmets of his servants look like the helmets of those Goa’uld to mock his rivals (or those he has defeated) in which case it would likely be even more insulting to put these helmets on mere humans.

Of course all of this is only relevant in regards to the TV series and only necessary if you are trying to explain the discrepancies between it and the movie. Actually, if you take the movie as Cannon, Ra was the last of the Goa’uld, and therefore his servant’s could not also be Goa’uld (And if there are no other Goa’uld, then why would he need Jaffa?). Besides they were too wimpy to be Goa’uld.

Still, Maybe they really are the real Goa’uld, just diminished somehow. Perhaps by age or disease of the symbiote they have become weakened. In which cause they may be effective nonentities as far as the Goa’uld are concerned, leaving only Ra as a true Goa’uld.

Actually I have my own theory that Ra is not really a Goa’uld (therefore the last of his kind but not the last Goa’uld) - but I’m sure you’re already convinced I’m just a huge nerd and have skipped most of this post.

GAVIDA

Monday, April 18, 2005 8:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordKafer:

Hmmm, perhaps I’ll leave that ambiguous. For one thing, I don’t own season one on DVD and it’s been a long time since I saw the pilot so my memory of the representation is hazy at best. Certainly though it seems to have been far more noticeable an effect and in that sense it must “work better”. However, that being said, I’ve seen many effects on the series that were dumbed down for TV (probably more because of budget concerns than disrespect for the audience) such as makeup used to show that the character is freezing.

I agree about the effects having to be cheaper in a TV Show than in a movie and therefore being "toned down".
Although Firefly was an outstanding example that awesome effects in a TV Show are possible

I am only guessing here, but when they started to shoot SG-1 no one was able to say if it was going to be a success or not.
So they cut on the production costs after the Pilot by getting rid of some stuff (like the freeze-over makeup).
When I compared some of the episodes from Season I to the ones of Season V (which I am watching at the moment) I realized that with the success of the show the effects got better again (like the Jaffa Pouch, it looked a bit too fake in the beginning of the series, or the other make-ups)

But I still think that it was also a decision for a faster pace to get rid of the freezing effect.
Imagine the Team going through the gate, being frozen and nauseaus (sp?) when on the other side there is a Jaffa ambush. SG-1 would get shot, captured or killed and the series came to an end early.

Quote:

Originally posted by LordKafer:

Don’t get me wrong though, I love the series! I like the movie too, but the series is my favourite (when referring to Stargate – Firefly is my true favourite of course:). I’m just not rich enough to buy the TV DVD’s yet.

I do love the series as well. And it really is close second to Firefly for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by LordKafer:

Actually that makes a whole lotta sense to me. The other theories I’ve read never settled why there would be more than one type of helmet amongst Ra’s soldiers. There was the hawk helmet of Horus and the jackal helmet of Anubis for instance, both of which have more elaborate workings than the standard Jaffa helmet as seen on TV. Perhaps he has conquered those respective leaders and now he fancies himself some sort of Super Go’auld. Perhaps that’s why Ra’s helmet, a very human face, is so different from any other Goa’uld.

Of course these wouldn’t necessarily have to be the real Anubis and Horus. Maybe Ra made the helmets of his servants look like the helmets of those Goa’uld to mock his rivals (or those he has defeated) in which case it would likely be even more insulting to put these helmets on mere humans.

Not sure if I am mixing up something here, but wasn't Anubis presumed dead by the System Lords? (at least I think it is said in the series, I think in "The Summit", don't nail me on that one, sitting in the office and trying to remember from the top of my head)

So that could explain Anubis' helmet in the movie. Ra used the old equipment of a Goa'uld that was considered "gone".
The suit of armour from a Goa'uld probably has more technical possibilites than the "standard" suit as seen on the show, so maybe he would give such a nice suit to someone he trusted (and/or mind controlled) to be the best possible equipped body guard.

Not sure how to explain Horus' suit though, have to check the "history" on that Goa'uld

Quote:

Originally posted by LordKafer:

Of course all of this is only relevant in regards to the TV series and only necessary if you are trying to explain the discrepancies between it and the movie. Actually, if you take the movie as Cannon, Ra was the last of the Goa’uld, and therefore his servant’s could not also be Goa’uld (And if there are no other Goa’uld, then why would he need Jaffa?). Besides they were too wimpy to be Goa’uld.

CYBERSNARK

Monday, April 18, 2005 1:56 PM

Well, I'm assuming that Faux-Anubis (in the movie) was Ra's First Prime; the head of his army (like what Teal'c was for Apophis). Note that Anubis' costume covered his stomach (where none of the others' did), so he could very well have been an actual Jaffa. Anubis also seemed to have a somewhat closer relationship with Ra than any of the Horus guards, what with their occasional non-verbal communication. It'd make sense for Ra to set up a hierarchy in his staff; wouldn't want the priviledged human Horus guards to start thinking they were equals to Jaffa, after all.

Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Not sure how to explain Horus' suit though, have to check the "history" on that Goa'uld

In the show, the Horus were Ra's personal army/guards. They only turned up when Heru'ur appeared, which is what makes me think that Heru'ur had the job of commanding Ra's actual forces on the System Lord level (Ra technically being an Overlord, like the difference between a High King and a King).

Originally, there were three great legions of guards, equating to those who were once the greatest System Lords before the rise of Ra. The Serpent guards were used by Apophis, the Horus guards served Ra, and the Setmos guards served Set (Teal'c told what was apparently a very funny joke about the Setmos that kinda died in translation).

These account for "masked" soldiers; other ("lesser") System Lords seem to rely on unmasked Jaffa, just with the standardized forehead tattoos. (Incidentally, anybody notice a really high percentage of Ra/Heru'ur's falcon-tattoo among the Jaffa rebels? Kinda makes sense that Ra's army would have a higher number of deserters, since he was the first Goa'uld Lord to die in recent memory.)

Presumeably, Anubis had his own legion, who likely vanished with him, and so are less well-known/remembered than even the Set guards. That's probably where Ra got that mask for his servant.

Mythologically, Horus was the son of Osiris & Isis. Isis was pregnant when Set killed Osiris. After Horus was born, he killed Set (meanwhile, Isis was gathering up Osiris' remains and reviving him with a sarcophagus).

When Osiris appeared on the show, I kept hoping for some reference that he or Isis had founded the Horus legion millennia ago and used it to destroy Set (securing Ra's ascent to power), then given it to Ra (to secure their favour in Ra's new order).

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

GAVIDA

Monday, April 18, 2005 2:09 PM

I am not sure about the "masked" and "unmasked" soldiers.

Maybe it is kind of "line soldiers" (unmasked) and special troops (masked)?

I can't say that I gave much thought about the organisation of the Goa'uld armies, but maybe the unmasked are the cannon fodder and the masked ones are the guys that get going when the going gets tough?

And having many Jaffa rebels with Ra and Her'ur tatoos makes sense. After their defeat it must have taken the remaining 'lesser' System Lords some time to absorb or assimilate the remaining forces of Ra and Her'ur. So they had the chance to free their minds from the indoctrination of their "gods".
I would presume that the death of your god makes you wonder if your beliefs are really that waterproof.

See ya,
Gavida

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