Religions in Firefly
POSTED BY: Astragynia
UPDATED: Friday, April 15, 2005 13:18
VIEWED: 13636
PAGE 7 of 8
I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough to get into a discussion on the likelihood of whether or what sort of religion would exist 500 years from now.
My personal opinion is that the massive upheaval would lead some people back to the traditional forms of religion because they offer a structure for society that is clearly defined, and this is what a lot of people would need if there's been a mass exodus from Earth.
I did want to point out, though, that in Heart of Gold, Book is clearly shown to be a Christian of some variety because he makes the joke about being able to build the barricades because he's spent his life following the teachings of the son of a carpenter.
(a joke I found very funny which is why I remember it! 
)
EDIT: I've obviously spent too much time reading the grammar threads, I completely missed out punctuation in that last paragraph 
---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:OTOH: Book's tardiness in engaging with sex-workers in that episode is so unlike any Minister of Religion within our comprehension, that it may make us wonder ...
Originally posted by BarneyT:
... that in Heart of Gold, Book is clearly shown to be a Christian of some variety ...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Lutherans are practically Catholics as it is these days - I should know, being a church-going Lutheran my own self. Our litergy has been taken from the Catholics and used during services for the past 25 years or so. So on the one hand, it wouldn't surprise me that the Catholic and Protestant religions may have mixed it up.
ScottishBrowncoat said
I heard at one time that there was a mention of Catholics in the Pilot for Firefly, it is before Book sees Kaylee, he goes to one ship where the owner says "No Asians or Catholics" and then book turns and heads toward what we find is Serenity, I heard the scene was cut because they didn't want to catholicize Book. But he does seem very "High Church" to me, maybe the Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox, and Lutherans Mixed it up?
The pastor at my church looks at it as a sibling rivalry - Martin Luther picked a fight with "big brother," a fight ensued and the two sides of the Christian religion stopped speaking to each other. So on the other hand, I don't see the Catholics and Protestants getting together anytime soon. That fight only got started in 1517, so the wounds are still too fresh.
That, by the way, is 488 years and the Protestants are still here. In fact a few other demoninations have sprung up since then. Covenant, Evangelical Free... if there's a different way to understand Christianity, we're still doing it over here!
It hasn't been proven that Book is preacher turned pawn, as Chrisisall mentioned way up at the tippy top of this really interesting thread. Neither has it been proven that he's former Alliance turned preacher, which is where my head is at right now. Someone just suggested to me recently that Book was former Alliance Black Ops. Having survived long enough to have gray hair, he was given the opportunity to retire, and they way that is done is to close him up in a monastery for a few years.
I'd go into the question of Book's chosen path of religiosity and whether the Shepherds are a Christian sect or not, take another look at "Heart of Gold" but that's just been covered. It's easy to forget that Jesus had a secular profession before the three years he spent walking the walk.
Speaking as someone who lost faith and found it again, I would agree that Mal was a man of faith, yes. However, had he been a man of STRONG faith, he wouldn't have lost it, no matter what happened to him. He would have seen everything that befell the Valley and the Independents as part of God's plan, no matter how awful it became.
Mal kissing the cross strikes me more as the same sort of good luck charm as putting a dab of spit on the end of a bat before getting up to the plate.
Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Speaking as someone who lost faith and found it again, I would agree that Mal was a man of faith, yes. However, had he been a man of STRONG faith, he wouldn't have lost it, no matter what happened to him. He would have seen everything that befell the Valley and the Independents as part of God's plan, no matter how awful it became.
Mal kissing the cross strikes me more as the same sort of good luck charm as putting a dab of spit on the end of a bat before getting up to the plate.
Certainly, I agree; that sort of thing seems much more superstitious than spiritual, to me. However, different branches of Christianity approve/disapprove of such things differently; the Roman Catholic Church, for example, is much more into the kissing-things-as-part-of-normal-ritual than most Protestant churches.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:This is true. We don't have prayer beads, we don't generally cross ourselves, or genuflect, or even kneel during services either. That pastor I mentioned, though, he encourages former Catholics to continue crossing themselves as they are accustomed to. He doesn't believe in compromising all traditions in favor of one belief system or the other.
Astragynia said
Certainly, I agree; that sort of thing seems much more superstitious than spiritual, to me. However, different branches of Christianity approve/disapprove of such things differently; the Roman Catholic Church, for example, is much more into the kissing-things-as-part-of-normal-ritual than most Protestant churches.
This is the same guy who wears a Native American medicine wheel in lieu of a cross, along with an arrowhead pendant made out of a green stone that I think is either aventurine or jade. Interesting things for a Lutheran pastor to wear, since we're often deemed too traditional for such things. He's taken part in annual sweat lodge ceremonies too, which is VERY Native American.
Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
OTOH: Book's tardiness in engaging with sex-workers in that episode is so unlike any Minister of Religion within our comprehension, that it may make us wonder ...
OtGH, Book later (in HoG) says something very like, "Been following in the footsteps of a carpenter for awhile, now". Clearly a reference to the Naz. Also clearly vague as to how long.
Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) ZZ Top, "Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers", from "Tres Hombres"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
In one of the essays in "Finding Serenity: Anti-heroes, Lost Shepherds, and Space Hookers in Joss Whedon's Firefly." Leigh Adams Wright talks about a scene that was cut in the episode Serenity when Book was looking for a ship. The scene that was cut described there to be a "fancy dressed" person in front of a high class ship, and that person in front of the ship was either a crewman or the captain, and he said "No Asians or Catholics aboard." This must mean that Catholicism is either close to abolished or just rare to find in the ‘verse. This just plays into the mass diversity that Firefly has, and one of the aspects that makes it one of the best series to ever be shown.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Actually all it means is that that person doesn't want Asians or Catholics on his ship.
But really, there has been a rivalry between Protestants and Catholics going back to the Reformation. This rivalry was particularly strong among certain groups of Protestants, Anabaptists and Calvinists for instance. Some of these groups (or groups like them) often had considerable disdain for Catholics. My point is that Catholics need not be rare or even a minority for some people to dislike them.
I personally think it is a little unrealistic to expect that that particular animosity would last into the 25-26 century. So much of the politics that originally fostered the bitterness between Catholics and Protestants has already dissipated. Even here in the South where Anabaptist Christian culture (or descendents of) is common, much of the dislike of Catholics seems to have settled.
Even in Northern Ireland the political turmoil seems to be winding down. However, one should still be cautious when declaring oneself a Catholic or Protestant in certain parts of N. Ireland. But the animosity in Northern Ireland is a completely different sociopolitical beast from the Anabaptist thing, which I think is probably closer to what Joss was driving at.
-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:But, By their fruits shall you know them. Accepting someone's statements on the basis of their choice of clothing is rarely to be recommended.
Originally posted by YT:
... Book later (in HoG) says something very like, "Been following in the footsteps of a carpenter for awhile, now" ...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
If ever I were to meet Joss Whedon, my first question towards him would be "You lost your faith in God because of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND?" In the "Objects in Space" commentary, he talks about how he saw the flick and because of it he lost his faith in God and Xtianity.
If you listen again, Joss actually says that at the age of 16 he realised that he had no faith. He then saw the movie and had an 'existential epiphany'. It wasn't the actual movie that made him lose faith
***********************************
No Power In The 'Verse Can Stop Me
XOXOX-FREDIKAYLLOW-XOXOX
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME