StarGate "Zat Guns" and "freezing while travelling Wormholes
POSTED BY: Gavida
UPDATED: Monday, April 18, 2005 14:09
VIEWED: 6428
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Hi all,
since from time to time people talk about StarGate, I thought that there are some fans here that can help me with some questions.
In the Pilot of the Series the people going through the gate were covered with ice when they arrived on the other side and needed some time to cope with the side effects of travelling through the wormhole.
It was never explained why it doesn't happen anymore after the pilot, if I remember correctly.
Has anyone from the fan side come up with an idea how to explain it?
The only thing I could think of was that the SGC "tweaked" the dialing computer a bit and found a way to compensate for any planetary drift later on and that the "cold effect" was because of the first trips being without the finetuning.
(I actually do not remember if the effect appeared in the movie with Kurt Russell)
Second question is about the "Zat Guns".
One shot stuns, two kill and three disintegrate the corpse.
But everyone watching the Series knows that all the members of the Team have been hit more than once by a Zat.
So do the rules only apply when all shots are from the same Zat?
Or is the effect of the first shot disappearing over time?
I think they said somewhen that it is an energy that messes up the body's bioelectric field or whatever it was called (not too good with words in english, it is not my native language, sorry)
I know that Stargate is not the best Sci-Fi Series there is, but I really enjoy it, the tongue-in-cheek humour between O'Neill and Teal'c is even saving the more cheesy episodes IMHO
See ya,
Gavida
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Hi all,
since from time to time people talk about StarGate, I thought that there are some fans here that can help me with some questions.
In the Pilot of the Series the people going through the gate were covered with ice when they arrived on the other side and needed some time to cope with the side effects of travelling through the wormhole.
It was never explained why it doesn't happen anymore after the pilot, if I remember correctly.
Has anyone from the fan side come up with an idea how to explain it?
The only thing I could think of was that the SGC "tweaked" the dialing computer a bit and found a way to compensate for any planetary drift later on and that the "cold effect" was because of the first trips being without the finetuning.
(I actually do not remember if the effect appeared in the movie with Kurt Russell)
I found the whole cold/ice on the team thing odd as it did not appear at all in the original movie.
I think it was something that the writer of the pilot came up with that they decided to leave out of the series afterwards as it was not necessary, did not really add anything to the story, and may have been a real hassle for makeup people to apply everytime someone steps through the gate. I don't think it has anything to do w/ compensating for planetary drift or making adjustments to equipment.
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavida:
Second question is about the "Zat Guns".
One shot stuns, two kill and three disintegrate the corpse.
But everyone watching the Series knows that all the members of the Team have been hit more than once by a Zat.
So do the rules only apply when all shots are from the same Zat?
Or is the effect of the first shot disappearing over time?
I think they said somewhen that it is an energy that messes up the body's bioelectric field or whatever it was called (not too good with words in english, it is not my native language, sorry)
I know that Stargate is not the best Sci-Fi Series there is, but I really enjoy it, the tongue-in-cheek humour between O'Neill and Teal'c is even saving the more cheesy episodes IMHO
The effects of a Zat gun were off after a while and the effect is not permanent or cumulative over time from hits sustained from Zats. One shot stuns and causes great pain, a second hit shortly after the first is more than the average human or Jaffa body can handle and it kills. The third shot disintegrates the body.
Personally I thoroughly enjoy Stargate SG1 and its spin off Stargate Atlantis. I really like O'Niell and I miss his on screen time now that he is in command of SG Command. His dry wit and sarcasm really made the show funny, but I guess w/ Richard Dean Anderson wanting more down time we and the show quality pay the price.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I found the whole cold/ice on the team thing odd as it did not appear at all in the original movie.
I think it was something that the writer of the pilot came up with that they decided to leave out of the series afterwards as it was not necessary, did not really add anything to the story, and may have been a real hassle for makeup people to apply everytime someone steps through the gate. I don't think it has anything to do w/ compensating for planetary drift or making adjustments to equipment.
Thanks for confirming that it was not in the orginal movie :)
I agree that they took it out of the scripts probably so they were able to keep it at a faster pace.
I was trying to find a more "story-like" explanation, fitting into the SG-Universe and was wondering if anyone came up with a plausible "excuse" for it not being in anymore
Quote:
The effects of a Zat gun were off after a while and the effect is not permanent or cumulative over time from hits sustained from Zats. One shot stuns and causes great pain, a second hit shortly after the first is more than the average human or Jaffa body can handle and it kills. The third shot disintegrates the body.
Thanks for the reply on the Zats.
Kind of what I thought. I was just not sure about the wearing off of the effect and was wondering if I missed some explanation while watching the episodes.
I own Season I - VI so far and started to watch them in english, since I realized that so much of the humour got lost with the dubbing.
Actually all the dialouges are so much better in english.
But there is the risk of missing information when you don't watch it in your native language, hehe.
Quote:
Personally I thoroughly enjoy Stargate SG1 and its spin off Stargate Atlantis. I really like O'Niell and I miss his on screen time now that he is in command of SG Command. His dry wit and sarcasm really made the show funny, but I guess w/ Richard Dean Anderson wanting more down time we and the show quality pay the price.
I guess I will have to cope with that as well, once I reach the Season where he leaves the active duty on SG-1, but I still hope it will be as enjoyable as it is right now to watch.
I had some problems with the show when Michael Shanks left and was replaced by this Jonah-guy, when I watched them on TV (but again it might as well be the german dubbing and the fact that I missed the one or the other episode)
See ya,
Gavida
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Quote:
In the Pilot of the Series the people going through the gate were covered with ice when they arrived on the other side and needed some time to cope with the side effects of travelling through the wormhole.
It was never explained why it doesn't happen anymore after the pilot, if I remember correctly.
Has anyone from the fan side come up with an idea how to explain it?
The only thing I could think of was that the SGC "tweaked" the dialing computer a bit and found a way to compensate for any planetary drift later on and that the "cold effect" was because of the first trips being without the finetuning.
I may be completely wrong about this but I was under the impression that the cold effect and violent gate exit were the result of not having a DHD (some kind of stabilization thing), and that they simply adjusted the gate program to compensate. I can't remember where this was from though, likely near the beginning of season one.
I enjoy Stargate too! Although I must admit to being slightly disappointed with season 8. It's just not holding my interest. Of course watching the episodes out of order may not be helping.
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"
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I don't know if it effected the cold/ice of going through the gate, but quite early on in the first season they put stabilisers on the gate (it made the whole place shake before as mentioned in Solitudes) and compensated for the planetary drift (after going to Abydos). The only other time I remember there being ice when they exited the stargate was (in Red Sky, i think) when they overrode the gates protocals and had a rather bumpy ride which makes me think it was a result of an extended or more difficult wormhole journey.
As for not being in the film, lots of things are different from the film not least that in the film Abydos is the other side of the universe where as in the series it is not only in the same galaxy but is the closest planet in the gate system. (and the pre-symbiote Goa'uld looks like a wrinkly evil Asgard)
Stargate continuity isn't the greatest. One of the most notable things is the effect of the zat stun as required by the story. The same person can be completely knocked out by it but three episodes earlier managed to shrug it off quite easily. It's been freely admitted that it is simply down to the requirments of the script.
yeees I have been a little bit Stargate of a stragate geek in the past :D
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
result of not having a DHD (some kind of stabilization thing), and that they simply adjusted the gate program to compensate.
Actually, I think they do explain it that way! But like you, I can't remember where it was from!
What I want to know about the Zatguns, is why when they shoot someone, that someone is stunned. But when someone shoots them, they shake it off!
BTW, I like season 8!!
-Ratboy
edit- I need to refresh more often!
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Guess I have to give the Pilot another go soon.
I think I remember that they mentioned there that they only could go to Abydos because it was the only connection with little planetary shift and that, after Daniel found the Cartouche (sp?) of Abydos they were able to compensate for planetary shifts by altering the program that they used in their dialing computer.
On a sidenote: That was the first time I realized how much got lost with the german translation of the dialogues, when Carter said that they "mcguyvered" together a dialing computer and O'Neill gave her this look. In german she only stated that they needed several years to put it together (no tongue-in-cheek reference to Richard Dean Anderson's probably best known role on TV). So his somewhat irritated glance at her is totally out of context and the joke is lost.
Regarding the Zatgun effect being weaker on our SG-1 "Heroes" than on other people that are shot by it, I also have to check how it was in the first episodes. But didn't they get stunned there as well?
Maybe the body gets kind of used to the effect after being shot with a Zat every now and then, while the Jaffa don't shoot each other with them?
Ok, I am starting to sound like a geek here, trying to fix holes in the storylines and plots :)
But after seeing the DVD Menues with the Chapter selection where you can see small scenes from the episodes I realized, that most of the time I could/would say "Oh, that is the one with the russians", "Yeah, remember that one with the alien pretending to be a member of the team" and so on, so probably I am on my way to geekiness already..... scary, hehe
See ya,
Gavida
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The freezing thing was in the movie novelization (which makes me think it was in the movie script, just not conveyed right on film). It's caused, BTW, by their molecules being compressed when they hit the "exit" side of the gate (think of a crowd of people all walking fast, then the first guy stops suddenly) and are re-combined. The compression is really painful, and slows their molecular movement enough (movement = temperature, remember) that they flash-freeze.
And yeah, I'm assuming there's a safety system built into the Gate itself that the original barely-stable connection to Abydos didn't have.
As for the zats, I'm assuming (from observation) that they work by breaking down molecular electro-chemical bonds --they're disruptors (as opposed to blasters or phasers). The first shot weakens the bonds enough to cause excruciating pain, which would likely be made much worse by trying to move. Two shots breaks the bonds past the point where nerves can sustain life --the heart skips a beat and just won't stop again. I'd guess that if there was a full medical suite literally within arms reach it might be possible to "restart" someone before "too much" brain damage sets in. Third shot completely breaks the bonds, and the remains are vapourized.
So, yeah, the effect would wear off with time, as the victim's bioelectric field stabilizes.
And as for the movie/series continuity, I've been thinking.
I mean, as awesome as it would be to get Anderson & Shanks to go back and redo the movie "as it 'actually' happened," it's not really needed. We know the basics.
Ra's servants being humans and not Jaffa (note their exposed and un-pouched bellies) bugged me until I thought through the implications: Having humans as his personal honour guard (as evidenced by their lack of armour) would be a powerful symbol, and the Goa'uld are all about symbols.
If anyone would've forseen a Jaffa rebellion, it'd be Ra (who, according to the movie novelization, first discovered the Tau'ri millennia ago, and whose human host was himself something of a rebel). He also had a "harem" of young humans, possibly as gifts/hostages from other System Lords. Humans would be even more cowed by his power than the Jaffa, and would be even more hesitant to defy him. The only trade-off is that humans are physically weaker, but if the human-Horus guards in the movie were Ra's personal entourage, he may've (hell, he likely) had massive Jaffa armies back on wherever his throneworld was (probably under Heru'ur's command). Nobody would've dared to attack him; even Apophis and Solkar together wouldn't've had the sheer manpower. It was only after Ra died that Apophis vacuumed up most of Ra's army before Heru'ur could consolidate his power. That's what touched off the Goa'uld civil war that we see in the series.
The only Jaffa Ra would've needed would've been his First Prime --Anubis (the only one in the movie who did not bare his midriff, and could thus have been hiding a Jaffa pouch), who was obviously a symbolic name, adopted after the original Anubis "disappeared." Sort of Ra saying: "Look at the once-mighty Anubis, now my humble servant! Bow before me, for I am your god!"
Yeah, I've put way too much thought into this.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Ra's servants being humans and not Jaffa (note their exposed and un-pouched bellies) bugged me until I thought through the implications: Having humans as his personal honour guard (as evidenced by their lack of armour) would be a powerful symbol, and the Goa'uld are all about symbols.
If anyone would've forseen a Jaffa rebellion, it'd be Ra (who, according to the movie novelization, first discovered the Tau'ri millennia ago, and whose human host was himself something of a rebel). He also had a "harem" of young humans, possibly as gifts/hostages from other System Lords. Humans would be even more cowed by his power than the Jaffa, and would be even more hesitant to defy him. The only trade-off is that humans are physically weaker, but if the human-Horus guards in the movie were Ra's personal entourage, he may've (hell, he likely) had massive Jaffa armies back on wherever his throneworld was (probably under Heru'ur's command). Nobody would've dared to attack him; even Apophis and Solkar together wouldn't've had the sheer manpower. It was only after Ra died that Apophis vacuumed up most of Ra's army before Heru'ur could consolidate his power. That's what touched off the Goa'uld civil war that we see in the series.
Hmm, I gave this some thought as well, but came to some other conclusion regarding the human guards in the movie.
Since Ra was "THE" Snakehead in charge and the System Lords seem to have a certain hunger for power I had drawn the conclusion that he used humans as his guards on Abydos because his main army (his battleworthy Jaffa) were garrisoned on the worlds under his control to prevent any uprising from the System Lords or used as occupational forces on the planets in his domain.
So, why draw away some strength from the planets that might need defense when just going to some low-tech backwater planet like Abydos? Some weak troops (compared to Jaffa troops) but still tough and well equipped enough to cope with any possible resistance from a weak population on Abydos.
(Hmm, I have to work on my rethorical skills, using too many words and sentences to describe my ideas, making them a lengthy read)
See ya,
Gavida
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That's a good idea as to Ra's troops being "hosted" among the other System Lords.
I kinda got the impression though that (before Ra's death), the most powerful System Lords were Heru'ur (Ra's son and thus part of Ra's household), Apophis (leader of the "official opposition"), and Solkar (who mostly kept to himself).
I'm assuming that the current power struggle only started after Ra died, and (as word of Ra's demise spread) his Jaffa pledged allegiance to various other Lords. Apophis eventually took out Heru'ur, the Tok'ra blew up Solkar, and Apophis got eaten by Replicators, which led to that coalition that nearly formed. This left Yu and Ba'al (the Backstreet Boy wannabe) as the dominant System Lords until Anubis reappeared. Yu's empire started to decline (after fighting Ba'al and Anubis at the same time), leaving Ba'al as the major power-player.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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