Religions in Firefly
POSTED BY: Astragynia
UPDATED: Friday, April 15, 2005 13:18
VIEWED: 13636
PAGE 4 of 8
As much as I hate to say it, religion(s) will survive as it suits the people who run this world. If necessary to control the masses with the belief that heaven will save them after a short and brutal life on Earth, then it will go on. If unnecessary due to economic conditions or severe climate changes (trying to keep from freezing or drowning or dying of thirst) then it will die away.
Religion is mostly a tool to be used and manipulated to pacify the sheep into not hittin' the fence too hard or too often.
True religion begins and ends within one's self and needs no justification from churches, governments or even friends.
How about this, if each one of the people who visited the Vatican recently gave the $50 or so they spent in travel to needy families, how much less hunger would there be in the area?
The incendiary Chrisisall
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Quote:... act as a cover for non-Religious activities?
Originally posted by chrisisall:
... Religion is mostly a tool to be used and manipulated to ...
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That as well.
Just remember, I'm only commentin' on the downside of religion, as I see it. Just 'cause I ain't goin' on about an upside, well that don't mean there ain't none.
The objectivly subjective Chrisisall
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I think Christianity is still around because it's only 500 years in the future. How long has Christianity been around? 2000 years? How long has the Jewish faith existed?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
America is of course a predominantly Christian country but that's rather the point. The only way to go is down.
nobody's contesting the possibility that Christians could be a very small minority
Quote:As I recall, most churches reported unusually high attendance the next sunday. Other religions probably did to. I also recall seeing politicians gathered together in from of the Capital, praying on TV. As you said, people reassessed who they were, as well as what was important to them. When someone is searching for meaning and value in a life that suddenly seems pointless, they often turn to religion, as very clearly evidenced by 9/11. Of course, many people would say that the flock to the churches was short-lived, but as you said,
Why do I think people will dramatically change their attitudes after the Earth is abandoned? Think about the changes after 9/11. Suddenly people reassessed who they were. It was like a global phenomenon. The number of articles that have started "Ever since 9/11...".
Quote:I imagine people would be taking it even more seriously, and newfound religion would be more deep-rooted.
That's what happened when two buildings got knocked down and a few thousand people died. Now imagine that every building on the face of the entire Earth is coming down. You're being crowded onto packed shuttles to an unknown destination. You're chances of survival are slim.
Quote:People have a funny way of using current situations to reinforce what they want to believe. Strong Christians would see it as part of the prophesy of Revelations, or as God providing us with safe passage from a place that we made hazardous (could apply to a person of any religion). It would strengthen their faith. Others might see it as a cleansing act similar to the Flood (although God told Noah that that wouldn't happen again). Atheists might see it as supporting evidence that there is no god, because a god wouldn't allow this sort of thing to happen. People of weak faith (of any religion) would either see it as a wake-up call (like many did with 9/11) or as a slap in the face, that they were barking up the wrong tree. Those people might lose their religion, whatever it was.
It's your Christian nation that has used up the world's resources. Are you telling me that people aren't going to question what they've been told?
Christianity survived through a time when it's followers were hunted down, arrested, killed, or fed to the lions. Judaism survived through enslavement, centuries of persecution, and the holocaust (just to name a few). I'm quite certain that both of them, as well as many others, would be able to survive the exodus from Earth. Again, they might very well be reduced to very small minorities, but they'd still be around.
Quote:There are new generations of Jews who haven't seen Israel, and Christians who never saw Jesus. I know that that factor gets multiplied many times over when those generations aren't even on the same planet, but it's not about the location - as long as there are people who still believe it and live it, it will survive.
What about the new generations that never even saw Earth? Won't they see religions as backward tales from a cursed planet?
Quote:Yeah, there are lost of people like that, and there will continue to be. I'm missing your point about what Beckham's salary has to do with it. Surely you're not implying that that gives him more credibility?
My favourite is David Beckham who said about his son "He's going to be baptised but we haven't decided into what religion yet."
He makes more in a week than we will in any year of our lives. Makes you think, doesn't it?
[edit: I meant "there are lots of people like that." Typo, or Freudian slip?
also, other than their being no Mecca for Muslims to pray toward or travel to, what (in any religion) would no longer be possible if Earth was destroyed? (which, of course, didn't necessarily happen in the Firefly 'v
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Quote:
As much as I hate to say it, religion(s) will survive as it suits the people who run this world. If necessary to control the masses with the belief that heaven will save them after a short and brutal life on Earth, then it will go on. If unnecessary due to economic conditions or severe climate changes (trying to keep from freezing or drowning or dying of thirst) then it will die away.
Religion is mostly a tool to be used and manipulated to pacify the sheep into not hittin' the fence too hard or too often.
You're saying that organized religion only serves as an instrument weilded by governments to manipulate its populace? I'm sorry, but I find this quite outlandish. There are, no doubt, cases in which you are correct, that I can't deny, but to genarlize it to all organized religions and belief systems is a bit much, don't you think?
First, in your defense:
Catholocism in the middle ages. Certainly a tool weilded by those in power and those who wanted power in order to maintain some semblance of peace through fear of condemnation.
Cults often wield religious authority to motivate masses into personal or political ends.
But I would argue that this is, at least to a significant extent, not how the majority of the world's religions function. That's not to say that, in the future, a reprisal of Dark Ages and Medeival opperession can't reoccur, but there's nothing saying it has to either.
To support my argument:
Communist Russia. Russian Orthodoxy survived decades of very severe opression, where non-atheist tendencies were a death warrent. Congregations would convene in basements, in secret, and pray quietly so they wouldn't be overheard. Enthusiastic government opression did nothing to styme the beliefs of the people there, and, further, likely strengthened their beliefs.
The early Christian Church. In it's most vunerable and formative years, the Roman Empire, as was stated briefly in previous posts, actively persectued Christians, feeding them to lions and the like. If a religion that young, and that formative, could survive the harsh persecution of Nero, what makes you think that an organization, with members numbering in the billions, would fold easily? Sure, some would loose faith, but all billion of them?
And lastly, religions are often, whether for good or bad, based around some form of governmental rebellion. Jesus spoke out against heresies of the Roman and Jewish political leaders of the day, Martin Luthor spoke out against Heresies committed by the Catholic Church of the time.
Religions don't pacify the "sheep"-like populace. All too often, religion infalmes them, and often the government takes the brunt of that passion.
Again, my point is not to make generalities, but to point out that there are many possible alternatives, and, likely, in 500 years all of them will show up in some form or another. And if there is at least one small conclave of Christians who still hold to the purity of their religion, uncorrupted by greed, power, and/or politics, it is likely to survive in some form. With over a billion alive today, I propose that it is not only likely, but almost a given that Christianity, in some form, will have survived, regardless of opression, abuse, misuse, failings, misjudgements, persecutions, holocausts, hatred, war, or even peace.
Beliefs are something that live inside someone, not tied to an individual place. Destory the earth, but as long as people live on, relgions will continue. Organized religions can be a lot less concerned with materials and places than some people might think.
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People who claim to know nothing and people who claim to know everything have at least one thing in common: both are either fools or liars.
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Religion won't die. People have been beheaded, crucified, boiled in pots, staked, fed to wild animals and still are being persecuted in different forms around the world.
Anytime people go back to a grassroots approach (i.e Firefly), they take up a religion. Will it be Christianity or Islam or Taoism or anything else, that's not known, but it's unlikely that some form of these religions won't still exist.
I was talking to someone very familiar with the Catholic faith and they told me that this generation of Catholics are becoming more fundamental than their parents' generation. People will experiment, but religions are here to stay.
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FourSkys, your reply was thoughtful and detailed. I didn't mean to say that was all religion was used for was questionable or evil, I just meant to say that the main use the ruling class has for religion is questionable or evil.
Like I posted right after, I didn't say religion didn't have an upside.
I sometimes have a way of makin' my statements sound a mite broadern' I maybe mean 'em...
It's just when you organize something, that something is more vulnerable to abuse and corruption.
Bruce is my Buddah Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I didn't mean to say that was all religion was used for was questionable or evil, I just meant to say that the main use the ruling class has for religion is questionable or evil.
Like I posted right after, I didn't say religion didn't have an upside.
I did happen to miss that second post of yours, thanks for pointing that out. And I'd agree with your last post that the main use of religion for the ruling class is generally, at best, questionable. An "opiate for the masses" in, probably, it's most mild case. But that doesn't mean that this is the only use for religion (not that that's what you were saying, Chrisisall, I just want to clarify a point). People who belive in something are always ripe for manipulation. When someone is willing to go to lengths for anything, there are always people willing to exploit that agenda for their own purposes. It's human nature (and the reason Socialize fails, but that's a whole 'nother story, all together).
But manipulation of that religion, its use, would, by definition, fortify it, and strengthen it. Even still, though, religion doesn't fade when "unnecessary". People who believe in something, in their own faith, stand to gain something from it. They find their own upside, and their own reasons.
I was thinking that I'd like to try to give some good examples of an upside simply to have both sides clear on the table, but then I realized how hard of a task that is. Religion is so much a personal thing, even to those of us in the organized sects. It can be generalized to peace and community, and altogether good feelings (at least most of the time), but it's very difficult to put a finger on the "upsides". Everyone gets something different out of it, and often times I feel (this is not directed at anyone in particular, please don't take offense by it) that most people simply consider practicing Christian sheep, following along with what everyone else is doing. While I'm sure some are, there is definitely a significant majority who feel real truth in what they believe, who are doing what they are doing because they feel it is right, not because it's expected of them. Anyway, this is getting significantly off track, but, if there is a true core of faith in a number of individuals in the FireFly 'verse, then there's no reason religion will die...
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People who claim to know nothing and people who claim to know everything have at least one thing in common: both are either fools or liars.
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I think we're both of a mind in this area, albiet your words are a mite more eloquent than mine.
And, of course you're right, religion of some kind or other will never completly die out, and hard times seem to make 'em stronger(on a person to person level, I mean).
The glib, yet nonetheless spiritual Chrisisall
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