Religions in Firefly

POSTED BY: Astragynia
UPDATED: Friday, April 15, 2005 13:18
VIEWED: 13636
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SHINYSEVEN

Monday, April 11, 2005 12:47 AM

Well, we know that Mal wore a cross at the battle of Serenity Valley; that everybody on the ship knows what a "Shepherd" is and that they have a distinctive costume; that Shepherds live together in Abbeys and practice meditation there; that the practice of saying grace before meals may be contentious but doesn't need to be explained; and that some Shepherds choose celibacy and others are allowed to marry.

IIRC the commentary to "The Message" says that Inara is a Buddhist.

YT

Monday, April 11, 2005 3:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven:
IIRC the commentary to "The Message" says that Inara is a Buddhist.

Ron Glass, the actor who plays Book, is a Buddhist. The rest of your post is well & succinctly put.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) Paul Simon, "You Can Call Me Al", from "the Collection"

YT

Monday, April 11, 2005 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Today the fastest growing religion is also 20 centuries old.

15 centuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Historical_origin_of_Islam

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) Robert Plant, "29 Palms", from "Sixty-six to Timbuktu"

REGINAROADIE

Monday, April 11, 2005 4:11 AM

Actually, the whole issue about religion and spirituality in not only FIREFLY but all of Joss Whedon's work I find a very interesting contradiction.

If ever I were to meet Joss Whedon, my first question towards him would be "You lost your faith in God because of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND?" In the "Objects in Space" commentary, he talks about how he saw the flick and because of it he lost his faith in God and Xtianity. Which to me is the most bizarre thing anyone can say because whenever I see the flick, I feel more spiritually alive. The whole movie is a sci-fi version of the story of St. Peter and is about faith and how believing in something bigger than yourself can help you in the long run both as individuals and as a society. And for me to hear Joss say that it made him lose faith is bordering on blasphemy. Sci-fi has always served as a great way of commenting on faith, spirituality and religion. DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, CE3K, 2001 and CONTACT are films that can serve as parallel religious epics.

And so despite Joss being an atheist, it's interesting that one of his characters in FIREFLY is a man of God, and BUFFY and ANGEL are about demons and angels and an acknowledgement of Satan and Hell. And those two can't exist without God and Heaven, right?

As for religions in FIREFLY, I think that they may call it a different thing, but the fundamental characteristics are the same. The way I see it, even though there are dozens of different religions out there, were all praying for the same thing. Understanding of who we are and the world we live in, protection of those we love, the ability to be better than what we are right now, all basic spiritual and human needs. It's just that some people pray to God, some to Allah, some to Buddha, some to whoever.

So whether or not it's Jesus or Buddha or the Dali Lama that's going to come and save us for our sins, it's still the same dude. So it doesn't matter if it's still Xtianity that's the dominant religion in the verse or if it's some new fandangled thing. It's still a belief system that has both advantages and disadvantages.

"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, April 11, 2005 4:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by YT:
15 centuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Historical_origin_of_Islam

It's debatable as to which one is the fastest growing, but certainly one of them is and they are both many centuries old.

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
And so despite Joss being an atheist, it's interesting that one of his characters in FIREFLY is a man of God, and BUFFY and ANGEL are about demons and angels and an acknowledgement of Satan and Hell. And those two can't exist without God and Heaven, right?

Interesting that a professed atheist finds so much in religion that interests him. I remember be criticized for setting a bad example for the children at my church because I watched Buffy. Buffy had a strong enough religious overtone to it that this person felt threatened by it.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

THEGREYJEDI

Monday, April 11, 2005 4:37 AM

I would like to point out that the Hebrew God is the same God as Christianity. Judeaism has been around since, oh, say, the beginning of recorded history. Which is some 7,000 years ago. And we're talking about 500 years. Not 5000 years. The Greeks worshipped Zeus, etc for a few thousand years, then the Romans assimilated them. Then Constantine converted Rome. If God can make it through the past 7,000 years of recorded history, I think God, and his Son, Jesus can make it another 500. I'm not saying Christianity won't grow or change (a la Orange Catholic of Dune fame), but that it will continue. It's not the biggest religion on this earth for nothing.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE.
http://www.jed-soft.com Gamer Rigs, Budget Prices
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

YT

Monday, April 11, 2005 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It's debatable as to which one is the fastest growing,

Perhaps, but I have no intention of joining such a debate in this thread, or for that matter in this forum.

Christianity is the most efficient shorthand for most of Firefly's anticipated audience. Think about it. It wasn't important to Joss that Mal be Christian, or Book. What was important is that that Mal was a man of strong faith, who lost it. Joss takes about 4 seconds to show Mal is a man of strong faith (kissing a cross & tucking it back against his skin). Later in the ep we see that he has lost that faith (6 second Q&A from Book to Mal, who won't have grace spoken @his table). In ten seconds, Joss has what he wants. OK, maybe the "why" took another ten seconds, but that had nothing to do with Christianity. In the same ep, Joss introduces nine recurring characters, three villains & their associated jeopardies, gives us three climaxes, and a come-along ending. Does anyone seriously think he could have fit in the invention of a new religion, too?

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . . (wutzon) Allman Bro's, "Revival", from "Dreams"

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, April 11, 2005 11:27 AM

You’re missing the point, YT. No one is asking you for an opinion on comparative religion or social demographics. The question is whether or not it is plausible for Joss to have used Christian symbolism or whether it is plausible to assume that Christianity, or some derivative of, is the religion practiced (at some point) by Mal and Shepard (and perhaps others) in Firefly.

SimonWho’s opinion seems to be that it is not plausible because (for reasons I’ve not ascertained) he or she believes that Christianity (and perhaps religion in general) will not survive into the future given Firefly’s premise.

I, on the hand, believe that it is plausible that Christianity will survive 500 years into future, because it clearly has survived many such 500 periods. Nor do I think that religion, in general, will vanish.

Your opinion seems to be that it is not relevant what religion is used; only the establishing of the character is important, and that the use of Christian symbolism is purely pragmatic. I agree that the more important thing is the establishment of character: Mal as a man who has lost his faith, Shepard as a religious man, etc. But I also think that the use of Christian symbolism was intentional. Christian symbolism is used to establish continuity between this world and Joss’ futuristic one. Indeed his whole theme seems to be a futuristic re-enactment of Reconstruction Era America.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

EMMA

Monday, April 11, 2005 12:28 PM

I am finding this debate fantastically invigorating!

I am writing a lecture on the Bible in Whedonverse at the moment and was wondering whether you would mind me quoting some of your comments?

A couple of quick thoughts before I go:

I think some people would take issue with the idea that Christianity 'evolved' out of Judaism. evolution is a loaded phrase usually implying 'better'. Also, on this basis Islam 'evolved' from Christianity and Judaism.

Scholarly debate usually accepts that the world's largest religion is Christianity but the fastest growing religion is Islam. Although as you have all proven there are dozens, of acknowledged variants of each. This also depends on a very 'typical' definition of religion which excludes football, capitalism and so on.

I really should get me a signature

SIMONWHO

Monday, April 11, 2005 2:12 PM

My reason for believing that Christianity and probably all current religions would die out is quite simple: everyone will have experienced the end of the world. I think people would start from scratch, in culture, philosophy and religion. There's no big trick to it, no scientific study. Just a belief that if the entire Earth is laid to waste, religion would fall too. You might think that people would run to religion instead. I disagree but there we are.

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