Political speculation on FIREFLY
POSTED BY: reginaroadie
UPDATED: Thursday, April 7, 2005 23:51
VIEWED: 10756
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I was listening to the Screen Gem's dude as he was talking about FIREFLY, and his mentioning of the political interdynamics between the Alliance and the Independents as an allegory between the American Civil War. Now, we know that FIREFLY was partially inspired by a Civil War book Joss read once upon a time, but I don't think the Independents are really just a futuristic version of the Confederates or even the Southerners of today. I think the main difference between the Independents and Confederates was the issues of slavery. As we see in the show, Mal is a hard core Independent. But at the same time, he abhorrs the idea of slavery. And so, with that differentiating ideology, then parallels between the Alliance/Independents and the American Civil War is moot, mainly because one of the key reason why the Civil War happened isn't even an issue in the war depicted in the show.
I think the main political allegory depicted in the show and BDM is really democracy versus autocracy/dictatorship. Any political party or form of government can be choosed in the viewer's mind. Personally, I think it's more Democrats vs. Republicans, but I'm sure that there are some Republicans here that detest the Alliance.
Any other political speculation one can see in the show?
"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."
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Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
As we see in the show, Mal is a hard core Independent. But at the same time, he abhorrs the idea of slavery.
As a northerner I can assure you that the American Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.
Lincoln said very clearly that he was not interested in ending slavery if it would harm the union. I hope very sincerely that you are not an American, if you are then it is proof of exactly how bad our educational system has become.
Remember that the Union proudly counted slave states among its ranks. If memory serves the Confederate constitution had directions on how to outlaw slavery, all that the United States constitution says about slavery is how much a slave is worth and how long you are not allowed to end it for.
We didn’t have Confederate privateers in Portland harbor because of slaves.
Slave states didn’t fight on the Union side to end slavery.
You don’t go into a war against slavery with your own front line pro-slavery.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
...I can assure you that the American Civil War had nothing to do with slavery...
...it is proof of exactly how bad our educational system has become...
*Applause from the homeschooled guy in the back.*
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Interesting take! Actually the Civil War was about state independence vs. a united states government, not slavery. Yes, I agree that it is more about Republicans and Demoncrats but keep in mind the Republicans don't want big government meddling in their business. That is more Mal and Republican.
I'm always amused by this topic and how both Republicans and Democrats see Mal as a member of their party. :)
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Bingo!
First: given incidental inside info, reginaroadie ain't American (think: Saskatchewan, Canada).
Wars, civil or international, have never been about moral ideals. Wars have always been about acquisition, whether it be territorial or markets. Moral ideals such as (anti-) slavery, or "democracy" have served their purpose only as propoganda tools to justify killing actions to the general populace, for obvious political necessity and for gathering would-be troops to the cause.
Sigh. Rant, rant, rant. I'm either preaching to the converted, or not.
--The trouble with worse is that it always seems normal.--
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First of all, as my sig name should point out, I am Canadian. And even though history was one of my favorite high school subjects, I only have a basic rudimentary understanding of the American Civil War. I know for a fact that Canada had the Underground Railroad going on at the same time, wich was set up for slaves to escape across the border into a country that actually promoted immigration and international freedom.
Don't states and provinces govern themselves slightly? Even though they're all under one system of rule, each individual state or province has their own set of rules and taxes. Or does that only apply to Canada.
Republicans don't want big government meddling in their business. So why is Bush waging pointless wars over oil, stomping on human rights, planning on destroying Social Security and bullying other countries into becoming the United States of Texas? Bush is the kind of man that Mal and Co. would rob or take down in a heartbeat.
"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."
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Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
First of all, as my sig name should point out, I am Canadian. And even though history was one of my favorite high school subjects, I only have a basic rudimentary understanding of the American Civil War. I know for a fact that Canada had the Underground Railroad going on at the same time, wich was set up for slaves to escape across the border into a country that actually promoted immigration and international freedom.
Don't states and provinces govern themselves slightly? Even though they're all under one system of rule, each individual state or province has their own set of rules and taxes. Or does that only apply to Canada.
Republicans don't want big government meddling in their business. So why is Bush waging pointless wars over oil, stomping on human rights, planning on destroying Social Security and bullying other countries into becoming the United States of Texas? Bush is the kind of man that Mal and Co. would rob or take down in a heartbeat.
"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."
As the person above stated, it's about bigger issues, but some issues gather the attention of general public, i.e. slavery being an issue of the time. But make no mistake, that was not what caused the war, but it did become a pro-war cry of the north. We are dealing with a global economy. China is growing rapidly in their economy but still remaining a Communist country. I have spent over a month in China and I have no desire for them to the the global economic power!
Make no mistake, it is not a pointless war over oil, it is about keeping stability in the Middle East. It's about maintaining freedom. The middle eastern religions are a threat to the western way of life just as the evangelical Christians are a threat to a woman's freedom.
Social Security? Doesn't work. My mother, who lives in Wyoming, only gets $599 a month to live on. That is way below the poverity level in the US. The system just doesn't work any more and if it doesn't change there will be nothing left for me when I am old.
My cousins and uncle live in Toronto and I know that Canadians do not get a good education about our country, just as we do not get a good one about yours.
Don't beleive everything you see on TV.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
As a northerner I can assure you that the American Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.
paraphrased.
Interviewer: Why did the Civil war start?
Apu: Well, aside from the economic...
Interviewer: Just say Slavery.
Apu: Slavery.
*Apu get his US citizenship*
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
but I'm sure that there are some Republicans here that detest the Alliance.
I don't know, most of us enjoy oppressing people's rights and torturing little girls.
Seriously, "some?" If Bush's regime were anything like the Alliance, Iraq would be a US territory now, and we'd be constantly taking over other countries. There's not a member of this board, Republican or not, who wants that. Think what you will about possible ulterior motives; the main issues motivating the war in Iraq were squelching terrorists and supporters of terrorism and breaking apart a government that enjoyed oppressing people's rights and torturing little girls. How about that, Saddam was just like the Alliance, just with less power. I'm not saying that Bush is a Browncoat, but I think his political ideals regarding personal freedom are much farther from the Alliance than Saddam's are.
Could Firefly be an allegory warning against the dangers of a powerful government that meddles in the business of smaller governments? Sure, and it's a good and valid warning. But Bush's motivation and the Alliance's motivation are quite different.
I mock you with my monkey pants
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
As we see in the show, Mal is a hard core Independent. But at the same time, he abhorrs the idea of slavery.
As a northerner I can assure you that the American Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.
Lincoln said very clearly that he was not interested in ending slavery if it would harm the union. I hope very sincerely that you are not an American, if you are then it is proof of exactly how bad our educational system has become.
Remember that the Union proudly counted slave states among its ranks. If memory serves the Confederate constitution had directions on how to outlaw slavery, all that the United States constitution says about slavery is how much a slave is worth and how long you are not allowed to end it for.
We didn’t have Confederate privateers in Portland harbor because of slaves.
Slave states didn’t fight on the Union side to end slavery.
You don’t go into a war against slavery with your own front line pro-slavery.
BRAVO!!!
I am glad to see that someone has actually not fallen for the revisionist history taught in schools these days.
Reginaroadie, you do realize of course that history is written by the victors, right? The winner will always cast themselves in the best possible light and villify the defeated. Been that way since the beginning of time.
I think the true parallel between the Alliance/Independents and the War for Southern Independence (not a Civil War as that is defined as two factions fighting for control of the same government, not independence) is the struggle for independence from an oppressive, all powerful centralized government. It is the right of any people to sever their ties to a governement they feel does not work and establish their own. This is what the South tried to do when they left the Union, and from what we have seen in the series, this is what the Independents did as well. The Alliance, like Lincoln's Union, would not let them go, using force to make them submit and reenter the Alliance.
The underlying message of Firefly is freedom, independence from the manipulation and interference of the government. This was what the South fought for, what the Independents fought for, and what we all long for.
__________________________________________
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."
Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/
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