Why is Firefly so different?

POSTED BY: Randy
UPDATED: Sunday, February 16, 2003 04:30
VIEWED: 12352
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BROWNCOAT1

Monday, February 10, 2003 4:43 PM

SkullNinja wrote:

Quote:
Star Trek uses a variant on the Panspermia hypothesis of why most intelligent life is bipedal humanoid in the Trek Universe. An ancient race seeded their genetic information throughout the galaxy and it acted as a dominant shaper for the form that intelligent life would take on those planets.

Yeah, I saw that episode of Star Trek Next Gen. Still not very realistic for Sci Fi. Sure it ties it altogether and explains why all the major players in the ST universe are all so similar, but the Ancients didn't "seed" every world in the universe. Surely there are far more "alien" species than humanoid.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

SKULLNINJA

Monday, February 10, 2003 6:00 PM

Actually, the Panspermic theory is an accepted theory in some scientific circles. It has fewer holes in it than Darwin's evolutionary theory and was one of the primary causes of all the hype a few years back when we thought we may have discovered a martian rock in the Antartic.

LOSTANGEL

Monday, February 10, 2003 6:12 PM

That theory would work if all planets that were formed were exactly like Earth. The fact is that there are too many planets out there. Of the planets that we have found, few are like Earth. Life finds a way to flourish, no matter what the atmosphere or conditions. Sentience (sp) is only by our reckoning, and we don't know what other animals on this planet are like, because we are so different from them. Whales are sentient, people would have to agree with that, but they have no need for a digital watch, or fire, or anything like that, their societies are advanced and such.

If life can find a way to flourish at the mouth of thermal vents in the ocean floor, then life can flourish in other types of environments that are nothing like ours.

Aside from that, I think that most aliens are perceived as bipedal so that the audience can relate to them in some way.

______________________
Lost Angel

WASH: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
ZOE: We live in a space ship, dear.
WASH: So?

SELNYC

Monday, February 10, 2003 8:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:

I also agree that it is a bit silly to think that all aliens would be bipedal and human in appearance. Sure it is done for ease of make up and to keep the special effects budget down, but it is still not very realistic.

And while we're counting the unrealistic things SF shows on TV do on account a they're all on pretty strict budgets, let's discuss artificial gravity.

For example, in "Out of Gas" how did Serenity hold on to her artificial gravity when everything else was going to hell in a hand basket? 'Cause of the budgetary restraints on episodic television. Let's also point out that big budget movies "cheat" in the same fashion (the one major exception to this being Apollo 13).

Why?

Expediency, my friends.

Even George Lucas expects us to accept the general use of artificial gravity; on the other hand, all of his ships make all that noise in space, so, there ya go...

Never forget that necessity is the mother of invention; the reason Kirk could say "Beam me up Scotty" (OK, he didn;t really say it, but you know what I mean) is because Gene Roddenberry couldn't figure out how to land that big damn ship.

Were there monkeys?

RANDY

Monday, February 10, 2003 11:03 PM

I have to agree that the concept of sentient life is relative to humanity. Different types of existence is a complex concept to try to wrap in one piece of brown paper.

There are all kinds of little questions when you try to attach reality to the concept of space travel. Artificial gravity is one (I didn't even think about that one). Another is the concept of time. At what reference point do they set their clocks, calendars and their sleep cycles? I assume they select a particular time zone on earth. Like River says at Simon's birthday, time based on solar cycles aren't relevant in space. It is interesting to consider living in a somewhat artificial "day".

Another thing I noticed in Safe, the crew gets paid for the cattle. Now how do they give Badger his cut since they are a cash business? Do they fly the 3 weeks back to Persephone? It is not like they have ACH deposits and can do an internet transfer.

One thing I wanted to mention about a previous post about Zoe NOT speaking her mind. I think you have to consider her character. She's an unflappable, serious woman of few words. Unlike Inara, who is outspoken in an emotional way, Zoe is outspoken in an even-toned, intellectual manner. She is just not one to have emotional outbursts. There are many instances when has she told the captain, "It bothers me" or "This is a bad idea" or "I don't like him" or even "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." And that look she gave Mal in Shindig was deadly. She simply understands and respects the chain of command. She is a soldier after all. But she does tell the captain when she doesn't agree, even if she has to follow orders. I believe that given her and Mal's history, he understands her well enough that she doesn't need to say much to him to let him know how she feels about a situation. Anyway, that's my take on it.

"...morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with" - Mal

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:57 AM

Those were some real pretty words, Captain!

Department of Redundancy Department

RANDY

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:17 AM

Bravo, Captain! So right and so eloquent. I couldn't agree more.

"...morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with" - Mal

SELNYC

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Randy:
There are all kinds of little questions when you try to attach reality to the concept of space travel. Artificial gravity is one (I didn't even think about that one). Another is the concept of time. At what reference point do they set their clocks, calendars and their sleep cycles? I assume they select a particular time zone on earth. Like River says at Simon's birthday, time based on solar cycles aren't relevant in space. It is interesting to consider living in a somewhat artificial "day".

One other thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post was the confusion over *where* this show is taking place. Originally, I think we were told this was a fairly large, almost completely terraformed solar system. In later intros, it seems to be a galaxy (could they have named their solar system "Galaxy"?).

Needless to say, this is a huge difference.

If Serenity is flying through a solar system at fast, though sub-light speeds, well, we're not going to have to worry about little things like relativity or time dilation/distorion.

If they're flying within a galaxy, however, then we're talking about faster-than-light (FTL) space travel, with all the distortions of time and space our current physics tell us would apply. Star Trek & Star Wars are famous for this kind of cavalier treatment of the laws of the universe (although Lucas has made it clear we're watching a fantasy with SF tropes). One of the few film series to acknowledge the vast distances involved in space travel of any sort was the Alien series.

Travelling at FTL speeds, you'd also need some sort of inertial dampener; otherwise you and all your crew would resemble strawberry jam spread all over the rear bulkhead of the ship...

Kinda makes the gravity thing look like small potatoes.

"Were there monkeys?"

NOOCYTE

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:43 AM

PMJI:
It seems pretty clear to me that FF takes place in another galaxy (or perhaps a globular cluster...mayhap one of the Magellanic Clouds?). It just doesn't make any sense for all these stories to take place in some unimaginably crowded solar system. For one thing, it (the system, that is) couldn't possibly be stable with all those gravity wells dancing around one poor sun (remember that, terraform as you might, all these occupied worlds have something resembling a 1-G environment [faux-grav is all very well and good on a ship, but on a planetary scale, it just doesn't wash...pardon pun]). It would surely fly apart, zinging planets at each other like billiard balls (and Management is NOT responsible for ball failure!) (to say nothing of monster tides in any sufficiently large body of water!).

So, we're pretty much talking about FTL travel. Don't see any other way around that. Joss seems pretty intent on not mucking about with the tech-talk any more than he has to, so this may just stay a black box. Just another secret of his warped (har-har) imagination.

As for arti-grav. Well, in "Serenity" we see the grav kick in just as the air lock is pressurized (cargo boxes from that dead carrier slam to the deck, soon as the outer door is sealed and atmo gets pumped in). Again, no muss, no fuss, just a little visual beat to quiet our tech hindbrains, and on with the story. Along with that, there pretty much has to be some kind of inertial dampening. We see these big bursts of speed when Serenity's Glowing Arse of Accelleration lights up, and no crew smearage to be seen. We can see that it's not perfect ("everybody hold onto something" for the Ivan), but we are treated to exterior shots of Serenity buffeting about the clouds (one Inara shuttle lauch bit comes to mind), whilst everyone just strolls around a quiet, stable interior. My guess would be that the grav and inertial dampening are linked systems, so maybe less active as exterior gravity becomes available. This last is one I haven't thought through too well, and could be pulled apart pretty easily...(also, I wonder if Wash likes a little "road feel" in the cockpit, since we see him rattling around, while the crew saunters. Mayhap he can customize by zone?)

Time dilation and such are only problems as you approach light speed in flat space, so some kind of worm-warp-folding-thingie would eliminate that bugaboo handily enough (can't have Badger being 50 years older than the last time they saw him the next time they ground on Persephone, can we?).

Gods below, but I'd love to see how Joss would tackle these issues in his off-handed, unobtrusively-well-though-out way!!!

Grrr...Arrrgh.

Ta.

Department of Redundancy Department

JEFFNS

Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:10 AM

I lean towards a single, large solar system for the background of the 'Verse. Who's to say that whatever techniques of terraforming were used on all the worlds, moons, large asteroids, planetesimals, etc, it wouldn't have the effect of increasing the gravity to something approaching Earth normal?
Also, if the number of worlds seems too large to be in orbit around just one sun, just think about how many bodies exist here in our own Solar System. There are more planets, moons, etc in our system than have ever been visited, listed or mentioned in the episodes thus shown.
And only in a small (compared to the rest of the Universe) volume like a solar system would the Alliance have a hope of exercising any kind of control over the peoples. So, I think Serenity has incredibly efficient and powerful engines, but they are sublight.

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