PRAY FOR TERRI SCHIAVO

POSTED BY: Conscience
UPDATED: Sunday, June 19, 2005 02:31
VIEWED: 17528
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SIGNYM

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:53 PM

Why do you bring up stupid points like "killing the infirm" (which no one is arguing) and those "mysterious" whatevers that no one can seem to substantiate? Just wanting to roil the waters? For what? To get attention? Posting flamebait? TROLL??

CONNORFLYNN

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Why do you bring up stupid points like "killing the infirm" (which no one is arguing) and those "mysterious" whatevers that no one can seem to substantiate? Just wanting to roil the waters? For what? To get attention? Posting flamebait? TROLL??

LOL..I'm flamebaiting!!!!? Someone starts a topic "Pray for Terri" and Siggy comes on and says Shut the fuck up! Who's the one flamebaiting? I'm talking about not killing a woman who can't defend herself, who has done nothing wrong except marry the wrong man and you are talking about Right Wing Hypocrisy. Get the fuck over yourself and look at what I'm saying..not what you think I'm saying.

Then we have another dork come on who starts claiming it's equivalent to the witholding of aid to some countries (though they aren't particularly clear on which). Talk about trying to spin something to fit your jaded little progressive douchbag philosophy. /ignore on

God I wish they had an Ignore User feature on these boards. You folks could ignore me and I wouldn't have to read your silly posts.

HEY XENO- This is my last response to you jerky-

Purposefully Starving Someone to Death who can't feed themselves or fend for themselves is MURDER!!! No fucking ifs ands or buts. Its capital punishment of the innocent, a horrific loophole in the whole assisted suicide/euthanasia laws.

Siggy - Who substantiated Terri's wishes? Noone..it's Michael Schiavo's words against the silence of Terri.

Here's a decent article on the "Unsubstantiated possibility of Abuse"

Quote:
Evidence of Physical Abuse Haunts Michael Schiavo
Fractures in wife’s ribs, pelvis, spine and ankle point to prolonged violent abuse

To: National Desk

Contact: Gary McCullough for the Schindler Family, 202-546-0054

CLEARWATER, Fl., Feb.10 /Christian Wire Service/ -- On May 6, 1990, two months after the mysterious incident that left Terri Schindler Schiavo severely mentally disabled, Dr. Hamilton, an Orthopedic Surgeon, examined her. A year later Terri was demonstrating painful reactions to physical therapy treatment, so on March 5, 1991, the Mediplex therapist director ordered a bone scan.

This bone scan revealed a healed broken right femur bone and healed bone fractures in Terri Schindler Schiavo’s ribs, pelvis, spine and ankle.

Dr. W. Campbell Walker concluded that Terri has a history of trauma and presumed that the other multiple areas of abnormal activity also relate to previous trauma.

As Terri’s lone guardian, Michael Schiavo has been able to conceal the bone scan and examinations from her parents, brother, and sister for over ten years. To date, Michael Schiavo has not allowed the family to see the results of the May 6 examination, the emergency room records from the day of the incident, nor any of the accompanying x-rays.

Michael Schiavo's inability to be forthright over the bone scan brings into question his lone description of Terri's activity at the time of the incident. His choice to have his wife terminated rather than rehabilitated may not be in pursuit of her interests, but to continue to conceal the level of physical violence he displayed toward Terri.

The bone scan evaluation is available online at www.earnedmedia.org/bonescan.htm

Makes you wonder why Hubby Dearest is so keen on having his wife cremated.

REEQUEEN

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:41 PM

Quote:
Makes you wonder why Hubby Dearest is so keen on having his wife cremated

Omigod! *bwhahahaha!*

Yes, planning to have one's spouse cremated is definitely a sign of a murderer. Or maybe it's clear I'm going to commit suicide because I plan to be cremated?

Hard to know.

'Cause, y'know, medical examiners cannot do an autopsy on a corpse before the planned cremation, at all.

...I'm sorry, the flailing is just so funny!....

"He has a gorm horizon. All gorm that falls past it is lost forever." UserFriendly http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050114

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by xenocide:
Is withholding aid really a standard you want to use for MURDER? Don't be fucking ridiculous. So that bum I didn't give a dollar to. If he freezes to death tonight, have I committed murder? Do I have the duty to ensure that every person 'lives' every second that machinery and modern medicine and force feeding can provide? Otherwise I am a murder? This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

It is quite absurd, I agree, but it is your own invention. I don’t see anything in what Connor said that even resembles this nonsense, and I know I said nothing like it. The only thing you’ve proven is that you can invent entirely ridiculous strawmans and then claim they are absurd. Good luck with that.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:02 AM

This is just so absurd. Let's see... According to the bone scan, the injuries were received about the time of the collapse. So Michael Schiavo beat the shit out of his wife and strangled her. Then he called 911 And the ER people didn't see any bruises around her neck or on her ribs, knees or ankles? And none appeared later, while she was in hospital? And since this "vicious beating" should have left obvious signs of abuse, no one notified the police? I mean, I know Florida doctors seem to be incompetent on the average, but this really strains credibility.

The other point is that people say Michael did this for money. He's already received the money, and none of it has gone to him. Most of it ahs gone to lawyers, the remainder is in still in the fund. Clearly, whatever is motivating him, it's not money.

WITLESSCHUM

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:05 AM

To respond to thread, I don't think there's anything to pray to, so I won't.

I feel for the parents here, they're seeing what looks like reactions out of her. But I think that's all it is, things that look like reactions. Whenever they've systematically tested it, she doesn't respond.

I don't blame the guy for shacking up and having kids, I'd want my wife to do the same, and I'd want her to pull the plug, same as he says she did. If my trust in m'love turns out have been misplaced, well, that's on me and that's life.

Even if everything the anti-Michael crowd says is true, well, I don't know what to tell you. Her folks have had many chances to argue in court before different judges and the legal system has investigated this to the extent it can and they haven't found evidence that her husband, as her next of kin, doesn't have the right to make this decision for her.

If you want to argue that it should be illegal to disconnect anyone, ever, from life support, than fine. Or argue to make someone's parents their presumed next of kin. I'd say you're wrong and it's a bad, but fine. But think, is going to all this for one case really worth it, or sensible, or even practical? Similar things happen every day.

In thinking about this, I don't think there are hard and fast rules that you can come up with that would lead to a perfect outcome, so we need a judiciary to look at things like this. And they have, I don't think our modern, secular society of the rule of law (which I think is the best thing since sliced bread) can do any better by any of us than it has by the apparently former residence of Terri Schiavo. If this was a despotry, you could win this by emotionally appealing to the despot, and getting him to see it your way, but it isn't.

And if anyone wants to call me a godless, commie, heathen leftwing bleeding heart fuckhead, well I'm proud of it. Elitist might not be ok, though I do hope to one day make enough money to be an elitist liberal.

Dan

SOUPCATCHER

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Having had a close family member in a quality of life struggle with a doctor I think I have a little understanding of what is involved in these sort of decisions. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be so greatly impaired as Terri. And to live day in, day out, knowing you have most of your life in front of you to waste away in a hospital bed.

Having a family member in this condition has got to be one of the toughest things to deal with. We respected my grandmother's DNR instructions last year and it was so hard just to watch her die when technology could've kept her alive.

I feel bad for all of Terri's family, the family that she was born into as well as the family that she chose for herself (her husband). I understand that hope springs eternal but, at some point, I hope that her family comes to terms with the reality that the areas of her brain associated with higher order thought are gone. Whoever is giving her parents' false hope is increasing their own karma as we speak.

KNIBBLET

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:30 PM

Witlesschum, I think we were cut from the same cloth. Thanks for speaking up :)

Whatever brain patterns made Terry, Terry, are long gone and have been replaced by cerebral fluid. 'Terry' is gone - only the vessel remains.

I'm grateful she isn't there to suffer what would be suffered by someone aware of their body's condition. And I repeat my assertion that if you believe in the soul, than you'd want to help Terry's soul escape the hellhole prison her body has become and release her to her God's care.

I'm also grateful that the two levels of federal judges that family has appealed to so far have shown more intelligence than the grandstanding legislators who are forcing this higher and higher.

Hasn't the Supreme Court already refused to hear this case? They hear only cases where they judge that someone's constitutional rights have been trampled by lower courts. This is not the case here and I hope the Court declines to hear the case.

[bold] Witlesschum wrote:
I don't think our modern, secular society of the rule of law (which I think is the best thing since sliced bread) can do any better by any of us than it has by the apparently former residence of Terri Schiavo. [/bold]

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

XENOCIDE

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 3:33 PM

Finn,

A) The plural is strawmen.
B) Connor Said:

Quote:
HEY XENO- This is my last response to you jerky-

Purposefully Starving Someone to Death who can't feed themselves or fend for themselves is MURDER!!! No fucking ifs ands or buts. Its capital punishment of the innocent, a horrific loophole in the whole assisted suicide/euthanasia laws.

If you lay aside the connotations in connor's language then you get: Withholding aid from someone who cannot get that aid through their own means is murder. Is this a strawman? I tend to think of it as using neutral language to discuss a concept in ethics. If that makes me a "fucknut" so be it.

C) Finn, I like talking to you because usually you try to keep rationality in the conversation but for you to accuse me, in this case, of constructing a strawman is utter fuckin' hypocrisy. Cases in point from your own initial post:

Quote:
...then we are now living in a state where retarded people can be put to death simply based on our assessment of how much of their brain is functional?

Strawman argument and an inappropriate analogy. Retarded (to use your adjective) people can survive without any assistance whatsoever. Terri will die without being force fed.

Quote:
the plant in my living room sitting by the back door is in a persistent vegetative state, yet there is no law preventing me from giving it water. In fact, if I were to not give it water and allow it do die, some people would claim that as evidence of irresponsibility based on neglect.

Strawman and ridiculous analogy. Furthermore if you killed your plant, for which your were responsible, no one would care.

Quote:
We should not be in the practice of killing people based on heresay.

Hearsay? Or rule of law. Husbands and wives as special privledges under the law. Including next of kin status, and guardianship in case of incapacity. This is part of that societal glue provided by marriage that republicans are so valiantly defending against gays.

I simply asked you both if you believed that withholding aid was tanatamount to murder. Which your arguments imply. The logical extension of those moral assumptions to other moral questions was my way of elucidating a point. That is not a strawman argument. Comparing brain dead people to 'retards' or plants is making a strawman argument.

Connor,

Feel free to ignore me. Glad if you do. Since you can't make an argument without resorting to juvenile name calling, and can't make an argument based on reason at all. Feel free to sod off.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

CAITE

Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:47 AM

Okay, so after I saw this thread I wanted to read up on what was going on with Terri Schiavo. What can I say-I am a perpetual scholar and I like to read up on things that interest me...especially before forming an opinion.

When I started reading up on this I was flabbergasted. I too agree that Terri should be let go. Michael is more than likely her legal guardian for a reason, or so I would assume. If she had wanted her parents to be the ones to make decisions for her, then she would have made them her legal guardians, yeah?

Also, I just read this which enraged me...Governor Jeb Bush is now trying to get LEGAL CUSTODY of Terri so HE can order the tube reinserted http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Assisted_Suici
de. I don't know about you, but I would NOT want politicians or anyone in the government making those types of decisions for me.

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