Maybe it's good it was cancelled . . .

POSTED BY: grrarrg
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 20:31
VIEWED: 11296
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CYBERSNARK

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:01 PM

Hmmm.

It's possible that the First wanted things to play out as they did. Think about it; when one Slayer dies, another is called. Now that Willow has basically "called" every living potential, there'll be no one to replace Faith (the current "reigning" Slayer) when she dies.

The lineage is now hopelessly snarled.

So, time passes, and Willow's call likely wouldn't apply to anyone not actually born yet, so no new Slayers are born.

Sure, there's an army of Slayers now, but they're mortal, every one. Eventually, they'll start dying off, even if they win every possible battle (which, let's be realistic, they won't). And I'd guess that some of the less trained/defended girls are going to end up vampire chow, which raises the possibility of Slayer vampires.

Remember that the First is well and truly undefeatable --it simply can not cease to exist. It's also very, very smart, and it thinks long-term. It allowed itself to get beaten, and for that one Hellmouth to be closed (Giles himself reveals that there are others).

I'm guessing that there's an army massing somewhere to counter the Slayer army, just enough to keep the vampires and demons and forces of darkness busy until the Slayers are all used up. Maybe that's what the Senior Partners had planned for Angel. Or maybe that army that Angel faced in the finale is the anti-Slayer brigade. . .

Wouldn't that be a kick. The apocalypse happens, and it ends up pitting Angel against Buffy.

Or maybe ("plan B?") was for Angel to be the crucible --the drill sergeant who would winnow the demon community, taking out the weak and ineffective so that the survivors would be hardened veterans, ready to face an army of Slayers.

Or maybe Angel was never the point.

Maybe they just wanted Illyria to appear, so that she could command their army. . .

Illyria versus Buffy.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

THEDUKE

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by NumeroCincuentaUno:
[By the way, Buffy stops breathing for a few seconds in season 1, and we get Kendra/Faith. She is dead and buried after season 5, so where is the third slayer? I'm just sayin'.]

as I understood it, each slayer could only be 'replaced' once...
you couldn't keep killing Buffy and keep getting more and more...
because Buffy did get killed a lot.

I don't particularly agree with this but i can see that it makes sense and is as valid an argument as any other.
However, it's interesting is it not to concider that buffy had not died naturally but supernaturally ina way that wasn't intended for her death, and that the great scheme of things hadn't caught up to the fact that she'd gone into the ball of energy and not Dawn. And there would be no reason to do anything about the fact dawn had gone cos she wasn't really real anyway.

This is a ridiculous point i know, and makes very little sense, but i thought i'd bring it up.

I am the preditor of the vole.

ZEEK

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:01 PM

I apologize for my original mistake about the worst Angel episode. The worst Angel episode in my mind is, without a doubt, "Why We Fight" in Season 5. It is such a terrible episode IMO. Angel recruited by the government who happen to know all about him? Come on. Spike and Angel meet up on a submarine? Sorta throws off their reunion during Buffy season 2 doesn't it? The only thing about it that was even decent was Angel saving people by creating a vampire after he got his soul. Decent idea. Terrible flashback setting and premise.

As for the slayer thing. I still like the alternative script for the last episode of Buffy that says Dawn is a slayer becuase she was made from Buffy. So while I agree that each slayer can only call one other slayer when they die, there is also the fact that Buffy may have died but her slayer powers lived on in Dawn.

The theory about the First wanting all the extra slayers cause they are mortal and eventually will die doesn't work for me. I agree that Willow's spell only affected potentials that were born at the time of the spell. However, because of Fray I assume that there will still be at least one slayer called at any given time. Perhaps The First did want some vamp slayers though. I was hoping that would become an uber enemy at some point in the Buffyverse. I always liked when the big bad was a vamp. Gave the enemy a more human feel.

GROUNDED

Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:16 AM

Why We Fight was indeed the low point of S5, but I'd have to go with Slouching Towards Bethlehem as the worst ever episode. S4 hadn't exactly had a stellar beginning but when I saw STB I just thought 'what the hell has happened to my favourite show??'

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, March 17, 2005 3:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
However, because of Fray I assume that there will still be at least one slayer called at any given time.

Ah, but Fray also establishes that there've been no Slayers (and no vampires) for, what was it, 300 years?

Maybe that's how long it took for the tangle (from Willow's spell) to unravel itself.

So, eventually, Faith dies, which would have called the next Slayer, but it can't now 'cause there's a whole army of them. Same thing when they start dying. Eventually there's just one left, who could very well be the one described in Fray, who sacrifices herself to destroy the vampires and demons.

So, no more vampires, but no more Slayers either --the First doesn't need vamps anyway, it'll exist as long as there's even one human willing to step on another on the way to the top.

Besides, as we see in Fray, humans eventually start creating their own "demons."

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

GRRARRG

Friday, March 18, 2005 9:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Hmmm.

It's possible that the First wanted things to play out as they did. Think about it; when one Slayer dies, another is called. Now that Willow has basically "called" every living potential, there'll be no one to replace Faith (the current "reigning" Slayer) when she dies.

The lineage is now hopelessly snarled.

So, time passes, and Willow's call likely wouldn't apply to anyone not actually born yet, so no new Slayers are born.

I hadn't thought about that. Excellent point. However, it would only work if Faith died before any more potentials were born. And at the end of Angel (one year after all the potentials were called), Faith was still probably alive, although they never said either way. I'm drawing a blank as to where Faith went when she left Sunnydale - did she turn herself in again?

If the only potential were just an infant when Faith died, would it still be called? As crazy as that would be, I can't think of a real reason why it wouldn't happen.

I mock you with my monkey pants

ZEEK

Friday, March 18, 2005 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Ah, but Fray also establishes that there've been no Slayers (and no vampires) for, what was it, 300 years?

Maybe that's how long it took for the tangle (from Willow's spell) to unravel itself.

So, eventually, Faith dies, which would have called the next Slayer, but it can't now 'cause there's a whole army of them. Same thing when they start dying. Eventually there's just one left, who could very well be the one described in Fray, who sacrifices herself to destroy the vampires and demons.

So, no more vampires, but no more Slayers either --the First doesn't need vamps anyway, it'll exist as long as there's even one human willing to step on another on the way to the top.

Besides, as we see in Fray, humans eventually start creating their own "demons."

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

Probably should have mentioned that all I know about Fray I learned from the breif description on Amazon.

Either way, there is still a slayer. So the spell didn't destroy the line entirely.

And the First didn't win by the time Fray occurs so that's goodness too.

I'm still for the theory that the First was none too happy that willow made a whole bunch of slayers. But I've always been curious as to what that big ball of eyes that Anya and Giles consulted weas talking about when it said that Buffy was the reason the First decided to get all active. I take it that was something to do with her dying and coming back to life a lot and messing up the line of slayers.

EMBERS

Friday, March 18, 2005 10:39 PM

I think you're right about the 'eye-ball' guy thing,
I think the First had been satisfied with one Slayer
(who was a force of good)
and thousands (millions?) of demons for her to fight.

The First was not crazy about the seemingly Immortal Slayer.

It would make sense to me if the First was REALLY pissed now,
but w/Caleb, & the Uber-vamps killed,
and the hell-mouth closed...it has been kind of a bad time.

Zeek someday you should check out 'Fray'
a fun combo of the Buffyverse moving into the Sci-fi future.
wacky fun

CROWLEY

Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:28 AM

Just to voice an opinion here, I actually liked it when the seasons were more disjointed. If you think about it, most Buffy seasons were pretty formulaic on the basic level: introduce a new evil guy in one of the first episodes, build him up along the season with some unrelated episodes in the middle and in the end destroy the big evil. I guess that's why I've grown to like Angel more, and that's saying a lot since I watched nearly all Buffy episodes, but when Angel got started I was completely disinterested with all the Anne Rice angst. First season episodes I saw could be counted with the fingers on one hand. Anyways, back to the point, I liked that the bigger plotlines in Angel kept you guessing more. Though I agree that the Evil Cordelia turn in S4 was a letdown. The season had great apocalyptic feel in it up to that point. It's like watching someone inflating a balloon, but instead of the big bang you expect it gets loose and sputters flat.

NUMEROCINCUENTAUNO

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:35 AM

OK, I thought I made a fairly subtle point about the narrative core of the Buffyverse, and the entire response had to do with an entirely arbitrary side comment concerning the Slayer Succession. Joss and company can make up whatever rules suit them, as long as they keep the viewers believing in the fictional universe.

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