What we do with despots
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 19:33
VIEWED: 7760
PAGE 3 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Holy shit, do SignyM and SigmaNunki even know what the hell is being discussed? When the two of you deal with the chips on your shoulders, then we’ll see about carrying on a discussion.
Give it up Finn. Anyone who dares to disagree with them, is just another "gun-totin' capitalist" or a "droid". Evidently, if we don't believe things their way, we are unable to think for ourselves, aren't sincere and don't have anything meaningful to add. In other words, debate and disagreement of any kind, frightens and annoys them!
They would obviously prefer that no one question their views, just believe anything they say, and blindly follow them. It's a good thing they aren't ruling here, or we might get arrested as political enemys of the state! Tyrants! HMMMM, pot meet the kettle!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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Quote:Neither (1) nor (2) are correct statements. They are both fallacies.
Originally posted by SignyM:
FINN... DEEP BREATH... Yes, we know what's being discussed. We're just tired of the same old same old. Yer a real gun-totin' capitalist, ain't ya? Except that (1) you're not a capitalist, you're a droid, just like everyone else and (2) "nuking 'em all" isn't a real solution.. not even for China. In other words, your fundamental world view is at odds with reality. That's why you keep reaching the same irrelevant conclusions over and over again.
(1) is an ad hominem. Because I am not a “droid.” That I do not draw the same opinions as you have does not make me a droid. But you are conceited. You claim that “everyone else” is a “droid.” Everyone is wrong but you. Get over yourself.
(2) is a strawman. Because I never once used any argument that could even be called “nuking ‘em all.” You invented this. Like your conceited worldview, this is just another lie you tell yourself. After you’ve convinced yourself that you, and only you, could be right, you then must take other arguments and rephrase them so that they are wrong, to prevent from disproving your previous lie.
“Everyone else” in the world is not a “droid.” And you need to get this chip off your shoulder, because you sound like a fruitcake.
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Quote:Yep. Generally, when people start using the “everyone else in the world is wrong but me” argument, it’s usually a sign of desperation. They’ve both made some intelligent points in the past. Their posts are fun to read, but sometimes it’s a little like talking with someone who thinks they know it all.
Originally posted by MacBaker:
Give it up Finn. Anyone who dares to disagree with them, is just another "gun-totin' capitalist" or a "droid". Evidently, if we don't believe things their way, we are unable to think for ourselves, aren't sincere and don't have anything meaningful to add. In other words, debate and disagreement of any kind, frightens and annoys them!
They would obviously prefer that no one question their views, just believe anything they say, and blindly follow them. It's a good thing they aren't ruling here, or we might get arrested as political enemys of the state! Tyrants! HMMMM, pot meet the kettle!
It reminds me of Tammy Bruce’s discussion on malignant narcissists.
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You both have entirely misintepreted my comment. By "droid" I meant a working person... like the overhwelming majority in the world INCLUDING ME. So- do you own your own business? If not, then you're not a capitalist. As far as the second point- I have yet to see you come up with an economic or political discussion on the topic "USA vis a vis the rest of the world". Your replies always seems to involve weaponry.
So the challenge -or offer (however you choose to perceive it) - still stands. Since you seem to think that it makes sense to foster dicatorships in light of other goals, please lay out your reasoning, starting with a list of dictators that we have supported over the past thirty years and show me that it has done us more good than harm. Are you willing to back your opinion with reasoning, discussion and facts? Or will you just let it dangle in the breeze?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You both have entirely misintepreted my comment. By "droid" I meant a working person... like the overhwelming majority in the world INCLUDING ME. So- do you own your own business? If not, then you're not a capitalist.
Just so you know, yes I do own my own business (actually one of three partners). I'm a filmmaker/producer, and our production company just finished our first feature length film.
If you know anything about that business, you would know that we consider our work more artistic than capitalistic. If we were in it for the money, we would be in a far less risky business!
Don't try to lump everyone together (droids?). It is short sighted and naive.
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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So we have one person in this thread who can actually claim to be a capitalist but who chooses to be considered something else.
And I'm not lumping "everyone" together, just the >90% of people who work for a living, as opposed to people who make their money through investments.
My offer to Finn still stands.
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That’s a rather narrow interpretation of the definition of capitalist. Let’s solve this problem right now. From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
capitalist
1 : a person who has capital especially invested in business; broadly : a person of wealth : PLUTOCRAT
2 : a person who favors capitalism
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=capitalist
Capitalism is more then just the act of owning capital. Like Socialism, it is also an economic philosophy, and those who favor that philosophy are called capitalists. Clearly the misinterpretation started a long time ago with your rather narrow interpretation of the word capitalist.
Secondly, while I am capitalist, I am still not a “droid.” If one wanted to reduce me down to a single term based on my profession, it might be “academic,” but definitely not “droid.”
Thirdly, none of my replies have involved weaponry. Whatever posts you’re reading they are not mine.
Quote:It’s really quite simple, we can’t fight the entire world at once, and it does no good to pit a despotic regime against us, if we aren’t willing to fight them. It’s just that simple. What possible good does it do us to discount Uzbekistan and risk them becoming an adversary in a part of the world where we are already embroiled in conflicts? It’s just idealist moralizing. As far as human rights and despotism go, short of regime change, we are far more likely to influence Uzbekistan in this direction if we have a positive working relationship with them, then if we ignore them, particularly for new nations like Uzbekistan. If I remember correctly, the Left was virulently opposed to removing Hussein? You wanted to foster that dictatorship, but not Uzbekistan?
Originally posted by SignyM:
So the challenge -or offer (however you choose to perceive it) - still stands. Since you seem to think that it makes sense to foster dicatorships in light of other goals, please lay out your reasoning, starting with a list of dictators that we have supported over the past thirty years and show me that it has done us more good than harm. Are you willing to back your opinion with reasoning, discussion and facts? Or will you just let it dangle in the breeze?
I could go into more detail, but that would require me checking some facts and looking a few things up for clarity. I’m not willing to do put that much work into this right now. I can only spend so much time on lunch, and I’m not going to spend all of it writing posts that will be dismissed without review.
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Since I'm looking for detail- facts and figures to back up your generalizations- I'll consider that your opinions are still dangling. I DID promise to review those posts sincerely and meaningfully, BTW.
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Of course you will. Just like you did earlier. If you're not willing to consider what I've said about Uzbekistan, I'm not going to go into the history of international politics in general so that you can dismiss that as "dangling" too. I just don't have the time.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Since I'm looking for detail- facts and figures to back up your generalizations- I'll consider that your opinions are still dangling. I DID promise to review those posts sincerely and meaningfully, BTW.
So you are the only one allowed to make generalizations, without facts to back them up? How interesting! How sincere and meaningful! How fair and balanced! HOW HYPOCRITICAL!!!!
I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.
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