An analysis of the illusion of freedom

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, April 24, 2026 16:13
VIEWED: 7512
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THEINCOMPARABLENOTION

Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:30 AM

Since this is going off in all kinds of haphazard ways...I think I may have something to contribute to this discussion. Perhaps just to eleborate. It may be relevant...or just redundent.

Anyways, freedom is somewhat difficult to define, as it can interpreted in so many different ways, I gather that it's commonly seen as the ability to choose what we'd like to choose, live like we'd like to live, and to live by your own ethics and moral code. And, in that traditional sense, the freedom of society as a whole has been hindered considerably (This is prevalent throughout most societies in the world, in my mind) by a myriad of aspects. Whether they be politcally, legally, intellectually, whatever; but is a result of society itself. I'm essentially paraphrasing Thoreau here, but Civil Disobedience is always relevant and is always going to be, and can be applied to so many aspects of society. But, I presume that we don't like not being free, I know I appreciate the smallest iota of freedom alloted to me...

I can't conjure any witty analogies at the moment...that's a bit dissapointing. Oh, i'd like to take this opportunity to commend you guys on your analogies, very clever.

At any rate, if the government commits any reprehensible violation of our rights...it's really a reflection of ourselves, before we jump to blame the government and their (or rather, our) laws, we really have to examine our own iniquities. A government's only people, and a person (and people, for that matter) can only do so much. So, I really have to pose this question: "Are the laws of government a reflection of our own morals and ethics, or a contradiction of them?" It can be true one way or the other, it's just really dependent on the specific case, whatever it may be. This is on account of the fact that the whims of our politicians (again, just people) factor into this, as do the wishes of the minority (which aren't always acknowledged), and the exploitation of the naivety (and ignorance) of people (that may sound more than a bit cynical and condescending, but everyone knows that it's true). This leads one to deduce that perhaps we are solely responsible to the acts of our government, which isn't always the case, and this certainly doesn't exonerate our politicians of their mistakes that inevitably affect us. It's a vicious cycle. Granted, this can fluctuate in times of adversity or hysteria (hey, that sounds a lot like the current state of America). And in regard to perpetual attacks on civil liberties and human rights, which are about as stable as a three-legged chair, this equates to, basically- we've allowed this to happen. It wasn't just Rumsfeld and 'Dubya,' McCarthy and his committee (i'm using them as examples, they're typical scapegoats) some of it can also be pinned down on us.

Freedom is an ambiguous term, and it'll only get fuzzier.

Dear lord, I just go on and on...I generally don't much like writing or speaking quite that much. Next time it'll be considerably shorter.

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:28 AM

I think it's quite a compliment that the Illusion of Freedom thread gets so many replies. As for being haphazard- I guess that IS in the nature of freedom. I like your post- there is much to think on.

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

THEINCOMPARABLENOTION

Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:10 AM

Thanks. But there were quite a few spelling errors, mostly subtle though, nevertheless, that vexes the perfectionist side of me.

Grr. And...blah.

RUE

Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:42 AM

Incomparable,

Thanks for the post. It was nice to see you around these parts.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

CITIZEN

Saturday, February 25, 2006 3:21 AM

It could be worse, we could be global capatalists, we could believe that one day we'll all be rich because we will, cause they said they would, and they wouldn't lie, cause they wouldn't

I'm not drunk matey, I'm not pirate steve arrr

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 1, 2006 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
we could believe that one day we'll all be rich

Isn't that what TV is for? We watch rich folk and have it in our minds that that's us, WHEN we get money like them (only we won't take it for granted, like those jerks...).

Later, got a short span here...

Chrisisall, temporarily computer-less at the library
*holds up cardboard sign that reads "Need cpu, any spare change will help..."*

RUE

Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:42 AM

America's rags-to-riches dream an illusion: study By Alister Bull
Wed Apr 26, 5:13 PM ET

America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhere in the world, according to a new study published on Wednesday.

The likelihood that a child born into a poor family will make it into the top five percent is just one percent, according to "Understanding Mobility in America," a study by economist Tom Hertz from American University.

By contrast, a child born rich had a 22 percent chance of being rich as an adult, he said.

"In other words, the chances of getting rich are about 20 times higher if you are born rich than if you are born in a low-income family," he told an audience at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank sponsoring the work.

He also found the United States had one of the lowest levels of inter-generational mobility in the wealthy world, on a par with Britain but way behind most of Europe.

"Consider a rich and poor family in the United States and a similar pair of families in Denmark, and ask how much of the difference in the parents' incomes would be transmitted, on average, to their grandchildren," Hertz said.

"In the United States this would be 22 percent; in Denmark it would be two percent," he said.

The research was based on a panel of over 4,000 children, whose parents' income were observed in 1968, and whose income as adults was reviewed again in 1995, 1996, 1997 and 1999.

The survey did not include immigrants, who were not captured in the original data pool. Millions of immigrants work in the U.S, many illegally, earnings much higher salaries than they could get back home.

Several other experts invited to review his work endorsed the general findings, although they were reticent about accompanying policy recommendations.

"This debunks the myth of America as the land of opportunity, but it doesn't tell us what to do to fix it," said Bhashkar Mazumder, a senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland who has researched this field.

Recent studies have highlighted growing income inequality in the United States, but Americans remain highly optimistic about the odds for economic improvement in their own lifetime.

A survey for the New York Times last year found that 80 percent of those polled believed that it was possible to start out poor, work hard and become rich, compared with less than 60 percent back in 1983.

This contradiction, implying that while people think they are going to make it, the reality is very different, has been seized by critics of President Bush to pound the White House over tax cuts they say favor the rich.

Hertz examined channels transmitting income across generations and identified education as the single largest factor, explaining 30 percent of the income-correlation, in an argument to boost public access to universities.

Breaking the survey down by race spotlighted this as the next most powerful force to explain why the poor stay poor.

On average, 47 percent of poor families remain poor. But within this, 32 percent of whites stay poor while the figure for blacks is 63 percent.

It works the other way as well, with only 3 percent of blacks making it from the bottom quarter of the income ladder to the top quarter, versus 14 percent of whites.

"Part of the reason mobility is so low in America is that race still makes a difference in economic life," he said.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

Recent studies have highlighted growing income inequality in the United States, but Americans remain highly optimistic about the odds for economic improvement in their own lifetime.

A survey for the New York Times last year found that 80 percent of those polled believed that it was possible to start out poor, work hard and become rich, compared with less than 60 percent back in 1983.

In tough times, people grasp harder at fantasy.
Churches fill up faster, and s-heads like Bush are looked to for hope.

Chrisisall

JAYNEZTOWN

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JAYNEZTOWN

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