In defense of STAR WARS 1-3

POSTED BY: reginaroadie
UPDATED: Thursday, March 17, 2005 15:09
VIEWED: 10884
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REGINAROADIE

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:54 AM

Hear hear. Totally agree with everything you said. You get a sense with these three movies that Lucas is essentially setting up the back story of the originals. And I think that once all six films are out on DVD, and watched back to back consecutively, all of them put together will equal far more than the sum of it's parts.

And the thing about Luke fits in with the whole realm of introducing STAR WARS characters. At first we might not like them from the beginning, but then we see their better characteristics shine through, thus reddeming them and their validity, and making for fascinating character developments. The noble Luke Skywalker who faces down Palpatine in the third act of JEDI is a far cry from the whiny teenager who wanted to go to Toshi's station to pick up power converters (for some reason I think those words could come out of Kaylee fairly easy). And it's the same thing with Anakin. Beyond the lightsabers and the bickeing droids and the Falcon going into hyperdrive, the whole film series is about how an innocent kid with incredible potential is corrupted by power, falls from grace, and is ultimately saved by his child.

Now if that ain't mythic, I don't know what is.

"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."

MACBAKER

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 3:31 PM

To the Lucas bashers here, I say this. Wait until it's fashionable to do the same to Joss. It won't seem so cool when that happens.

George Lucas has become an easy target for fanboy hate, and frankly, it's pathetic! You didn't like the Special Editions, and the first two prequels? Fine! Get over it! Movie series rarely have a perfect run. Godfather III? The majority of the Bond films? The Matrix sequels? Indiana Jones and the Temple Of Doom? Yes, Peter Jackson avoided that curse with LOTR, but would he have done as well if he had three more to make, or if he had written them himself, without Tolken's books to guide him?

George has never claimed to be a great writer, but he is a remarkable filmmaker. He has risen the bar in so many area's of film and entertainment. THX has revolutionized theater sound. ILM has been the leading edge of special effects since it's inception, and other effects houses like Zoic and Digital Domain exist because ILM paved the way. Lucas Arts continues to push gaming to the next level. The movie experience (at the theater and in our homes) is better for everyone, because of George's contributions to the industry.

Frankly, I'm amazed the first two Star Wars prequels weren't worse, considering how many hats George was wearing! He was extremely ambitious trying to produce, write, and direct, while at the same time literally writing the book on an entirely new platform/camera for digital fimmaking cinematography! He also had the balls to use his own money to make these movies, without the safety net of a studio to share the risk with.

Unfortunately, new technology means there's a learning curve. Each prequel has gotten better, and if the rumors are correct, the third movie could be the best of the entire series. Give the guy some credit. He deserves it.

Before you bash a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself! I did, and it's hard, frustrating, sleep depriving, heart breaking work. It sucks the life out of you and takes up all of your time! It is also the best experience you'll ever have! Until you walk a mile in his shoes, you'll never understand why it's a crapshoot everytime you make a movie. I did, as a Producer on our film (one hat was enough thankyou), and I have nothing but repect for filmmakers like George Lucas, Peter Jackson and Joss Whedon. We just made a small low budget indie movie, and it took over three years of our lives to complete it. I can't even imagine the work, or the size of the army it takes to make a movie on the scale of Star Wars, LOTR, or Serenity, but I had a small taste with our movie, and it's very hard work! Do they always get it right? No, but when they do!!!!! WOW!

For info on our movie:
http://www.guardianoftherealm.com/epk/index.html
Trailer: http://www.guardianoftherealm.com/epk/trailer.html

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

BIBSY

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
To the Lucas bashers here, I say this. Wait until it's fashionable to do the same to Joss. It won't seem so cool when that happens.

Writing off everyone who criticizes Lucas and the prequels as doing it because it's "fashionable" is an unfair generalization. Yes, there are the knee-jerk fanboys out there who scream "Lucas raped my childhood!" at every turn, but there also plenty of us who have well reasoned criticisms. Some of us "bash" because we, god forbid, are genuinely disappointed with the films. The last time I did something because it was fashionable was...well, never.

Quote:
George has never claimed to be a great writer, but he is a remarkable filmmaker.

Which is exactly why so many people are disappointed with the prequels. Lucas is aware that he's not a great writer, yet chose to write the films by himself anyway. That screams egotism. Lucas is a good filmmaker, but he'd be even better if he addressed his weaknesses instead of apologizing for them. Bring in someone who is a good writer to help him strengthen that aspect of the film. He did that with the original trilogy and it helped.

Quote:
Give the guy some credit. He deserves it.

The guy absolutely deserves credit for his accomplishments. That, however, does not put him beyond criticism when he fails to live up to the standards he himself set.

Quote:
Before you bash a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself!

So someone's not allowed to have a critical opinion of something unless they've done it before? By that logic, no one should be allowed to say they like a film either. I mean, they've never made one, so how would they know it was really any good? Let's all walk out of the theater and keep our mouths shut.

It all comes down to this: Some people like the prequels. Fine. Some of us don't like the prequels. Also fine. As long as we offer constructive reasons for opinions, they are valid and have every right to be expressed.

Quote:
Originally posted by chronicthehedgehog:
I get the feeling that people who complain about the new trilogy are just pissed that the films weren't just a remake of the originals.

Maybe that's true for some, but it's absolutely not true for me or most of the people I've discussed the prequels with. I would have been even more disappointed with the prequels if they were just a retread of the originals.

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I really don't see how people don't enjoy the story.

A good concept does not necessarily translate to a good film. Personally, I like the story. I just don't think it was told well.

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The space monkeys ate my homework.

MACBAKER

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bibsy:
So someone's not allowed to have a critical opinion of something unless they've done it before?

Actually, according to critic Roger Ebert, most critics shouldn't, because they haven't. He speaks from experience, because he actually has written a script that was made into a movie.

I'm not saying you can't be critical about his work, but be specific. My quote was "Before you BASH a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself!" Generalized "Lucas sucks!" rants are pathetic. It's those "knee-jerk" fanboys I was speaking to. Don't talk about "logic" and then unlogically try to put words in my mouth! Being a critic about someone's work is one thing. Generalized bashing of one's career without any experience in the work involved is another!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

BIBSY

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
Actually, according to critic Roger Ebert, most critics shouldn't, because they haven't.

I have nothing but respect for Roger Ebert, but I've gotta disagree with him on that. By that logic, I shouldn't comment on the meal I ate the other night because I'm not a chef. I've never made a film, but I'm intelligent enough to understand the process and how complicated and difficult it is.

Quote:
I'm not saying you can't be critical about his work, but be specific. My quote was "Before you BASH a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself!" Generalized "Lucas sucks!" rants are pathetic. It's those "knee-jerk" fanboys I was speaking to. Don't talk about "logic" and then unlogically try to put words in my mouth!

I didn't put words in your mouth. There haven't been any "this movie sucks!" comments in this thread so far, which is why, to me, your comments came off as commentary on the criticisms that have appeared in this thread. If I misinterpreted, I apologize. It's just that you addressed your comments "to the Lucas bashers here", and I haven't seen anyone mindlessly bashing in this thread.

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The space monkeys ate my homework.

MACBAKER

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bibsy:
I didn't put words in your mouth. There haven't been any "this movie sucks!" comments in this thread so far, which is why, to me, your comments came off as commentary on the criticisms that have appeared in this thread. If I misinterpreted, I apologize. It's just that you addressed your comments "to the Lucas bashers here", and I haven't seen anyone mindlessly bashing in this thread.

This whole thread is about the very subject of Lucas bashing. Like the original poster, I was adding my defense of his work!

As far as putting words in my mouth, you said

Quote:
Originally posted by Bibsy:
"So someone's not allowed to have a critical opinion of something unless they've done it before? By that logic, no one should be allowed to say they like a film either.

I never said you can't have a critical opinion, you said I did! I said, "Before you bash a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself!" There is a distinction that you chose to ignore.

As far as your food analogy goes, you've never cooked a meal of your own? Ever? Not even slapping together a simple sandwich?
Ebert isn't a filmmaker, but he has written a script for one, so that gives him some perspective. You may not be a trained Chef, but you have probably cooked a few meals in your lifetime, and that gives you some perspective on the cooking process.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

BIBSY

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MacBaker:
This whole thread is about the very subject!

But there has been no bashing within it. As I explained and APOLOGIZED for, I misinterpreted who your comments were directed at. Yes, the original poster commented on the bashing that has been done, but the discussion since then has taken the route of intelligent discussion of the films, which is why I misinterpreted who your comments were directed at.

Quote:
I never said you can't have a critical opinion, you did! I said, "Before you bash a filmmaker's work, try making a movie yourself!" There is a distinction that you chose to ignore.

And as I said, I thought your use of the word "bash" was directed at the criticisms made within this thread. I did not see those critcisms as bashing, which is why I used the term "critical opinion" instead of "bashing" in my reply. It was a misunderstanding, not a case of me ignoring the term you used.

Quote:
As far as your food ananogy goes, you've never cooked a meal of your own? Ever? Not even slapping together a simple sandwich?

Ebert isn't a filmmaker, but he has written a script for one, so that gives him some perspective. You may not be a trained Chef, but you have probably cooked a few meals in your lifetime, and that gives you some perspective on the cooking process.

I've also made home movies with a camcorder. Does that lend perspective on filmmaking? Seriously, though, I'd argue that watching movies and applying critical thought to them, or even watching a behind-the-scenes special, can offer perspective on filmmaking. Nothing near the real experience, but it can lend understanding.

Look, I don't want this to get needlessly antagonistic. I agree with your original post that mindless bashing is unwarranted. I just honestly thought it was directed at some of the folks in this thread and not bashers out in the world.

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The space monkeys ate my homework.

MACBAKER

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:20 PM

Okay Bisby, we both suffered from a misunderstanding. Nuff said! I wasn't clear on who my audience was. I wasn't talking about the contributors to this thread, but to all the bashers who visit the entire board who find it fashonable to flame on Lucas.

Your comments about cooking though, prove my point. You said yourself that you would never call yourself a Chef with the skill to make a meal fit to be served in a restaurant. How did you come to this conclusion? Because your experince cooking your own meals gave you some perspective on how hard it really must be for a chef to prepair a quality meal, and the training it must take.

BTW: Making home movies is how most filmmakers got their start. If the video is just vacation stuff, well no, you're not really a filmmaker, but if it tells a story (even a silly one) then you're a filmmaker. It's not the size of your audience that matters, it's the story you are trying to tell!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

BIBSY

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:36 PM

Bygones, MacBaker.

Quote:
Your comments about cooking though, prove my point. You said yourself that you would never call yourself a Chef with the skill to make a meal fit to be served in a restaurant. How did you come to this conclusion? Because your experince cooking your own meals gave you some perspective on how hard it really must be for a chef to prepair a quality meal, and the training it must take.

I think I'm saddled by the bias of knowing something about filmmaking (without actually having made one) but arguing a point for the people who don't. So I'm just gonna shutup on this and let them fend for themselves.

Quote:
BTW: Making home movies is how most filmmakers got their start. If the video is just vacation stuff, well no, you're not really a filmmaker, but if it tells a story (even a silly one) then you're a filmmaker. It's not the size of your audience that matters, it's the story you are trying to tell!

My home movies consist of my nephew opening Christmas gifts. So nope, not a filmmaker.

I am a writer, though, so I heartily second that the story matters more than the audience size (and oh how very small my audience is).

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The space monkeys ate my homework.

EVILMIKE

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chronicthehedgehog:
I really don't see how people don't enjoy the story.

I'm not sure anyone here is complaining about the story in general. It's the specifics of the execution that people have problems with.

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