One nation, over a cliff...
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 09:20
VIEWED: 7771
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:Paint me skeptical.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn- Actually, there are a lot of non-lethal ways to improve our effectiveness. Why do you always jump to extreme/irrelevant examples?
Quote:Nothing at all. I’m all for it, but since it’s already been done. It would seem somewhat moot.
Originally posted by SignyM:
For example, what would be so horrible about requiring better automotive fleet efficiency? We'd reduce oil demand, and be in a better bargaining position vis a vis oil suppliers.
Quote:Debatable. That has yet to be seen. I’m inclined to believe that less tax burden means a stronger economy. I would think a strong economy would certainly be fiscally responsible.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Then, there is the Federal deficit brought about by the tax cut. As ideologically attractive as that tax cut was, it was fiscally irresponsible.
Quote:Once again, debatable. Some have argued that corporations are fleeing the American market to avoid the tax burden, which would suggest that corporations are actually overtaxed.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Furthermore, judicious modification to our incorporation, trade, and tax laws would place all businesses on a more even playing field and ensure that they pay at least a minimum tax, which is a fair price for the protection that they receive from our Armed Forces overseas.
Quote:I’m not entirely sure your information here is completely accurate. But to respond to your question, I should think your premise for starting this thread should be enough reason. Is there something about stopping incoming Chinese ICBMs before impact on our cities that you don’t see as a good thing?
Originally posted by SignyM:
And speaking of Armed Forces- why are we still blowing billions on a Star Wars-type "nuclear shield"? The damn thing hasn't worked on 19 out of 20 tries, and has already been thwarted by the development of a guided "ballistic missile".
Quote:If what you’re looking for is affirmation of Postmodern Liberals views, then you are likely to be disappointed by my opinion. I’m a capitalist. I believe corporations should be owned and run with as little input from the government as possible. Unlike many of my Right-wing brethren, I don’t necessarily support realpolitick so I’m not inclined to think that American economic interest should necessarily dictate foreign policy, but at the same time, I’m not naïve like many of my Left-wing brethren, who think that one can divorce the corporate power from state power. (Oddly though, in practice generally right the opposite occurs.) The power of a state is always going to be inexorably linked to the power of its economy.
Originally posted by SignyM:
At this point, I really don't feel like debating stupid points with you, either, since you are so ideologically stuck that your "world view" is pretty much limited to the world in your head. I'm sure it's much simpler in there.
Can you really fault me for being skeptical? Do you really think that what you have presented here is a solution? I don’t have all the answers either, but I think it is a little more complicated then you seem to be making it. In the mean time, I don’t want to be wiped out by Communist China while we sit and ponder idealistic anti-corporation philosophies. I’m really not big on Chinese food. It’s the sesame seeds. Three hours later I’m still picking them out of my teeth.
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Quote:
Mmm..OK. We seem to be back to the idea that insults actually count as real arguments. Again, that's the PirateJenny mode of political discussions.
would you please stop throwing my name out, I never insulted anyone as I recall, I was constantly being insulted,and by you most of all so give it up!!
and you don't have to respond to this post , why don't you just stay on topic of this thread because I don't want it turning as petty as the other one!!!
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Quote:
. I think he could care less about how low the dollar will go since that will make it possible to pay off the debt in worthless currency. Of course that will also mean that the US standard of living will fall like a rock
This was part of my reasoning in the other tread about the soft dollar and why Bush would want to funnel a steady flow of money from social security into the stock-market...but I digress
Of course no matter the Euro is going to be the dominate currency wether that happens sooner or later its going to happen, and yes our standard of living will fall dramatically, Bush doesn't care because his standard of living won't be effected!!
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Quote:
Once again, debatable. Some have argued that corporations are fleeing the American market to avoid the tax burden, which would suggest that corporations are actually overtaxed.
you only bring up one side of that issue, those corporations flee America set up shop in some other country, but still do Business with America, they don't wantto pay American taxes or pay a decent wage to workers but they want and are allowed to take our money while taking our jobs
you well know a a country's econmic power is part of its power, the economic policy for this country is make us weak...
If these businesses want to flee the country fine, but they should still be taxed so it wouldn't be so lucrative for them to do it!!
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Quote:That’s some tricky business. Import tariffs on formally American businesses to punish business for not wanting to pay high taxes. That’s a little like strong-arming, isn’t it? Don’t you think that maybe these import tariffs will just be passed onto the consumer? Resulting in less fun for everyone.
Originally posted by piratejenny:
you only bring up oneside of that, those corporation flee America set up shop in some other country, but still do Business with America, they don't want American taxes or pay a decent wage to workers but they want and are allowed to take our money while taking our jobs
If these businesses want to flee the country fine, but they should still be taxed so it wouldn't be so lucrative for them to do it!!
But setting that aside, don’t you think you’re dodging the issue? We might solve the problem by considering reducing the taxes to be a little more competitive, maybe? Work with corporation for the good of all, instead of strong-arming them into raising their prices.
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"Nothing at all. I’m all for it, but since it’s already been done. It would seem somewhat moot."
The last change in CAFE standards was back in 1991. But efficiency can be increased substantially- it's technically feasible and doesn't even require anyhting fancy like hybrids.
www.aceee.org/energy/cafe.htm
"Debatable. That has yet to be seen. I’m inclined to believe that less tax burden means a stronger economy. I would think a strong economy would certainly be fiscally responsible."
How long do we have to wait for the Bush doctrine to take effect? Reagan tried trickle-down in 1981 and it had the same effect- massive deficits. Apparently you don't learn from history.
"Once again, debatable. Some have argued that corporations are fleeing the American market to avoid the tax burden, which would suggest that corporations are actually overtaxed."
Some have argued... well, some are stupid. The whole discussion would take too long for this thread.
"I’m not entirely sure your information here is completely accurate."
My information is entirely accurate. Take a peek at the real world once in a while and inform yourself.
"But to respond to your question, I should think your premise for starting this thread should be enough reason. Is there something about stopping incoming Chinese ICBMs before impact on our cities that you don’t see as a good thing?"
We WERE talking about effectiveness, right?? Apparently, you see nothing wrong about spending billions on system that DOESN'T WORK. How is that effective?
"I’m a capitalist."
You know nothing about capitalism. Have you read "Wealth of Nations?" Doubtful.
"I believe corporations should be owned and run with as little input from the government as possible."
Yes, I know- you believe. But I already know that you're an ideologue, so you're not telling me anything new- or making much of a case for your beliefs.
So given all that, I really see no more need to reply to your statements of belief. I may respond when you talk about something real.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Some have argued... well, some are stupid. The whole discussion would take too long for this thread.
Openmindness. That’s what I like about you. Quote:So you’re in favor of putting a stop to AIDS research?
Originally posted by SignyM:
We WERE talking about effectiveness, right?? Apparently, you see nothing wrong about spending billions on system that DOESN'T WORK. How is that effective?
Quote:Would it make a difference if I said I had read it? You seem to have pretty much made up your mind. Not only have I read Smith’s work, but I’ve also read some of Keynes' work.
Originally posted by SignyM:
You know nothing about capitalism. Have you read "Wealth of Nations?" Doubtful.
Quote:Do you promise?
Originally posted by SignyM:
So given all that, I really see no more need to reply to your statements
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Quote:
Auraptor: I find such columns and post (sic) as these little more than sour grapes by folks who just can't accept that they lost at the ballot box.
Auraptor, do you have ANYTHING to say about the state of the US economy? Just wondering when you're going to join the discussion instead of trying to hijack the thread.
For what it's worth, I got my info about China's 'string of pearls' from AsiaTimes Online. If you don't know what that is, perhaps you should google it.
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Jenny, there are other ways to tackle the "race to the bottom" problem, and one way is to change trade laws. To do that, we have to take a long step back from the system as it currently operates, and examine the fundamental ASSUMPTIONS AND BELIEFS on which the system is based in order to see if they're working.
But before we get to fundamental changes, we should look at short-term solutions. One short-term problem is American debt, which is dragging down the currency and may be close to creating a currency panic. The Federal deficit is basically an easy fix, if you're not ideological. Reverse the tax cut on the wealthy. Cut programs (like Star Wars because you lose nothing. Negotiate better drug prices for the Medicare drug progam. I think solving the deficit is quite do-able, and really wouldn't involve sacrifice on the part of the average person. It would be interesting to pencil-whip some of these figures to see how they come out.
The trade deficit is a more stubborn problem, because it's been caused by corporations moving overseas for cheap labor as well as by increasingly expensive imports of oil. We can actually deal with the oil part of the equation pretty handily on a short-term basis by simply focusing on automotive fuel economy since 40% of our oil goes to gasoline. Oops... time's up!
What do YOU think we can/ should do?
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I agree with the opinion that one of the things keeping the US solvent is that foreign countries don't want to start a run on the currency. That they are afraid that in the stampede to get in line, no one will be paid.
I know how to invest in the Euro, but they are not isolated enough from US economic perturbation for me. Anyone know how to invest in the yuan?
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