One nation, over a cliff...

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 09:20
VIEWED: 7771
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INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Friday, March 11, 2005 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hahahaha!!! Well, it sure helps to know that at least you haven't lost your sense of humor!

Talk in Japan Shakes Dollar and Treasuries

www.nytimes.com/2005/03/11/business/11dollar.html?th&oref=login

Wow. Now there's a witty rejoinder. Is that what passes for repartee these days? Or perhaps you've been taking lessons in political discussion and argumentation from PirateJenny.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Friday, March 11, 2005 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oddness2her:
Hero, if I am sore, it's not because I lost or, as you ludicrously claim, hate democracy. The reports of registration fraud, voter intimidation and flipped votes involving black boxes have been well documented (Google "election fraud" "2004 election"). Just recently, a Bush campaigner admitted to harassing Democrats by phone. The exit polls on Nov. 2nd showed Kerry in the lead, yet somehow Bush "won" key states. If you love democracy so much, why aren't you angry that so many of your fellow Americans were not left in peace to vote as they wished?

Did you actually read all of Hero's post? Or did you just stop at the "You hate democracy" bit without bothering to figure out what he meant?

There are people who do nothing but look at pictures from Mars landers to find "evidence" of "Martian" civilization. They then post their findings on the internet. Why isn't their evidence on the nightly news? Why is the media suppressing the truth?
http://www.totalthinker.com/Mars/mars.html
http://rush.digitalchainsaw.com/marspage.html

For the same very good reason the media doesn't broadcast the stories about how the election was "rigged": internet sources are generally unreliable. People post their outrageous claims to the net; no self-respecting news agency will air those "stories"--and rightly so.

Just saying something happened doesn't make it true. Corroborating reporting and evidence are necessary. Single-source intelligence will burn you every time, because it doesn't take much to make up a story. Just because that story happens to agree with your worldview doesn't make it true.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

SIGNYM

Friday, March 11, 2005 8:03 PM

Inevitable "Wow. Now there's a witty rejoinder. Is that what passes for repartee these days? Or perhaps you've been taking lessons in political discussion and argumentation from PirateJenny."

Wow, now THAT'S a witty rejoinder! Actually, I have a job and a busy life... unlike you, apparently. If you want to look at inadequate responses, take a look at yours, or the one I was responding to:

"People have had a good look at W, and when put up along side any alternative, they've chosen Bush. W might not be the best answer for everyone all the time, but the U.S. chose him over everyone else. Despite your chicken little claims about what the rest of the world thinks, or what they MIGHT do, things are going quite well here, and abroad."

I spent precious time researching how "things are going" by looking up, in as unbiased as way as I knew how, records of trade deals and so forth as reported in financial, trade, and general news publications. Auraptor's response? A typical unsupported assertion- not worth the bytes it was written with- that "things are going quite well, here and abroad". Oh, really? What "things?" Our budget? Our trade balance? The war in Iraq? Our progress against terrorism?

Given the stupidity of that response... and yours... you should be grateful that I responded at all. If you continue to respond stupidly and off-topic, well, I'll just continue to call 'em as I see 'em. That may involve responding in-kind.

ODDNESS2HER

Friday, March 11, 2005 8:03 PM

Inevitable, I did read all of Hero's post. I chose to respond directly to the first part because it was a pointed attack at me personally.
As for yours, it's too inane to even bother with.

SIGNYM

Friday, March 11, 2005 8:13 PM

Back to more pertitnent discussion, I hope?

I think the one thing that really strikes me about the problems that we're facing is that they're all pretty much self-created. And really, it wouldn't take much to fix the most egregious issues... just backing away from Bush's more hare-brained policies.

For example, Bush seems to absolutely DELIGHT in pissing people off, even when it's not necessary. What does he care about the death sentence for Mexican nationals anyway? In fact... and somewhat off-topic... why is he so committed to the death sentence in the first place? I thought he was a good Christian who believes in the sanctity of human life. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "Vengeance is MINE, saith the Lord" and all that. Apparently, he doesn't read his own Bible. But... back on topic... it wouldn't cost the United States much of anything to have these criminals serve a life sentence in Mexico. Or Bush's demand that the IRA disband immediately. First of all, it's impossible to enforce and secondly, it's not really our business. You have to be pissing ppl off on purpose to say these sorts of things. It costs nothing to say nothing. And once you make enemies, they're enemies for a long time. There just ain't no percentage in it.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, March 11, 2005 8:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rising Powers: How the U.S. Became the World's Dispensable Nation

Yep. It’s a dangerous world out there. I’ve been trying to tell people this for a long time.

You folks remember this the next time you come across some Salon.com article bashing defense spending, the military, missile defense or other defense initiatives. Sometimes it’s not “fear-mongering.” Sometimes the threats are real.

HERO

Friday, March 11, 2005 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oddness2her:
If you love democracy so much, why aren't you angry that so many of your fellow Americans were not left in peace to vote as they wished?

If I believed that were the case I would be more then angry. I live in Ohio, guess what? No fraud.

We did have some token incidents. One nice womane tried to vote in Cleveland without registering then ran outside to her waiting lawyer for a press conferance and a trip to the courthouse. We also had a nice person working for the NAACP registering inner city blacks in exchange for crack, they just pled guilty...funny, that didn't make the national news. There were some normal balloting issues, most easily resolved with little or no delay and many caused by an unusually high turnout.

We had an unprecedented legitimate effort by Democrats to register new voters in our cities. Their success was incredible. The only thing more incredible was the Republican effort to register rural and suburban voters. These new voters not only registered, but they braved the rain and the lines to go and vote and they were the difference. Thus we carried Ohio for the President by a larger margin then Kerry won PA. Now you want to talk voter problems, fine, but its as legitimate to argue about PA and several Kerry states as it is to argue Ohio, which means its either not legitimate all (my view) or the entire process is flawed (your anti-democracy view).

H

HERO

Friday, March 11, 2005 9:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oddness2her:
If you love democracy so much, why aren't you angry that so many of your fellow Americans were not left in peace to vote as they wished?

Your right, we should do something...

"Orlando Mayor Surrenders in Ballot Probe
By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

ORLANDO, Fla. - Mayor Buddy Dyer, a judge and two campaign workers surrendered Friday on felony charges that they violated a state law barring payments for the collection of absentee ballots."

...about all this Democratic Party voter fraud.

H

SIGNYM

Friday, March 11, 2005 9:15 PM

Finn- Where you see a military threat, I see a military threat but an ever bigger economic one. Which is why blowing energy out our *ss and staying in hock to the Saudis and sending billions of dollars into the black hole that is Haliburton SHOULD give us all pause as to whether we are really doing things the most effective way possible.

Well, lunch is over. Back to work for me!

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Friday, March 11, 2005 9:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Inevitable "Wow. Now there's a witty rejoinder. Is that what passes for repartee these days? Or perhaps you've been taking lessons in political discussion and argumentation from PirateJenny."

Wow, now THAT'S a witty rejoinder! Actually, I have a job and a busy life... unlike you, apparently. If you want to look at inadequate responses, take a look at yours, or the one I was responding to:

"People have had a good look at W, and when put up along side any alternative, they've chosen Bush. W might not be the best answer for everyone all the time, but the U.S. chose him over everyone else. Despite your chicken little claims about what the rest of the world thinks, or what they MIGHT do, things are going quite well here, and abroad."

I spent precious time researching how "things are going" by looking up, in as unbiased as way as I knew how, records of trade deals and so forth as reported in financial, trade, and general news publications. Auraptor's response? A typical unsupported assertion- not worth the bytes it was written with- that "things are going quite well, here and abroad". Oh, really? What "things?" Our budget? Our trade balance? The war in Iraq? Our progress against terrorism?

Given the stupidity of that response... and yours... you should be grateful that I responded at all. If you continue to respond stupidly and off-topic, well, I'll just continue to call 'em as I see 'em. That may involve responding in-kind.

Mmm..OK. We seem to be back to the idea that insults actually count as real arguments. Again, that's the PirateJenny mode of political discussions.

I generally perk up whenever I see your name at the top of a post because you usually post articulate, well reasoned ideas (even though I usually don't agree). I hope that you'll continue to do that in the future. Given my (formerly) glowing opinion of you, it stuns me to be called "stupid" by you so many times in the same post. If you disagree, tell me where you thought that I was wrong in my argument. After all, that's what I've seen you do in that past--I respected you for actually responding intelligently when you disagreed. Making {i]ad hominem attacks is hardly your style. I didn't call you stupid.

I notice that you didn't bother to reply to the issue that I raised. Again, that hardly makes for good discussion. So, I'm going to raise the issue again.

Internet sources are almost invariably unreliable. That's becuase anybody can post anything they want to the internet. The fact that there hasn't been widespread coverage of voter fraud in U.S. or world news media indicates that there wasn't any. Show me evidence Sygnym.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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