Monsters.
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 26, 2026 20:52
VIEWED: 14016
PAGE 25 of 25
I don't agree with your claim (or what I think you are claiming) that some people are born evil or with the capacity to do evil. People may be brain damaged at birth, which may increase the liklihood of aggressive behaviour and poor impulse control, but they aren't going to be the manipulative, violent 'monsters' that we are speaking of.
Of course if you live in a violent society, you'll learn the rules of that society. Socio/psychopaths don't learn the rules. And we know that violent and dysfunctional societies (and the two aren't necessarily connected) will breed socio/psychopaths because of what children will experience in early years - parental abuse or witnessing abuse/neglect because of poverty/drug/alcohol abuse etc etc.
In case studies of socio/psychopaths such as Ted Bundy, there has always found to be some severe attachment disorder from early childhood.
Bowlby was the first one to identify the importance of attachment through his work with institutionilised orphans after ww2 - similar studies have been conducted on present day 'eastern bloc' orphans - even when adopted into loving homes, demonstrate severe attachment disorders (such as anti social pd's) because of the lack of secure attachment to a carer when they were infants.
If doesn't matter so much what your experiences are after those early years (even though they will impact on you) - you are virtually created through those experiences from 0-3
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Quote:
I don't agree with your claim (or what I think you are claiming) that some people are born evil or with the capacity to do evil.
Erk, definitely a misunderstanding that - as I too do NOT believe in "born evil" - in fact I believe that to be a lame excuse used to avoid putting proper resources into fixing these problems.
I was sayin it's absolutely possible to mess someone up beyond the hope of repair before they even reach adulthood - and once they've gone that far...
Then what ?
It's a question I don't have an answer to, not directly, so like the whole issue of abortion, my "answer" is to do all I can to prevent it from coming to that.
And yes, 0-3 is THE most important window, but not the only one.
As Perry's work has shown, a lot of the brain is use-dependent - and my own experiences with this stuff confirm his statements that the earlier you get to it, the less entrenched those patterns are - but over time there's a calcification process where they are reinforced, like the way driving back and forth over the same patch of dirt creates a rut, see ?
And so these behaviors become, mentally, the path of least resistance.
Basically if you can get to it before puberty, there's still a pretty good chance, and although puberty and it's resultant flood of hormones and changes complicates matters, it's still quite possible to help them since the patterns are not so set - but in the period shortly after is where the real calcification begins, and it then becomes exponentially harder the longer after that...
So by the time these kids wind up in the juvenile justice system, there's not a lot of hope left, and even less after a hellcamp or juvie prison - like I said, I *have* pulled some back from the brink, but it's a long road and not an easy one.
Strangely enough, females seem to be more mentally resilient, and for longer, than males - of the outcasts we've been most able to help the ratio has been about 85/15 female to male, I couldn't tell ya why, but there it is.
One huge problem with it is that Child Protective Services/Social Services or whatever you wanna call it, is tremendously dysfunctional and inefficient as a safety net for this problem - Andrew Vachss also points out these flaws and possible solutions in his dispatches.
http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches.html
These two give actual lists of the necessary reforms.
http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_8500_a.html
http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_8510_a.html
One additional issue is the all-or nothing sledgehammer approach which is very destructive to the public credibility of that system, we've often found ourselves in direct opposition and conflict with CPS because either they load the scale too heavily in favor of adults and reuniting "families" which never worked, cannot work, and never will work - or they go all sledgehammer about it an attack an entire community or culture instead of specifically targeting the bad actors amongst them.
Plus they suffer from a tremendous amount of burnout, secondary trauma, lack of resources and investment because politicians see only the quick-fox which benefits them while in office, instead of the tiny investments that pay off huge twenty years down the road.
Worse is the effect on the kids themselves - watching their pleas for help go ignored, or being called liars and manipulators, watching as society and the system give the appearance of tacitly condoning the abuse, as long as it's discreet - because of the status of children as less than human (and often enough, less than housepets) - this has a tremendously detrimental affect on their perception of others during critical development periods and can lead directly to antisocial behavior...
Which, it being a natural consequence OF that treatment - can we really call it a "disorder" ?
Anyhows, a lot more to say - but I am out of time, gave wendy the weekend off, so I have rounds to do.
-Frem
"Chewin on the shield rim, gonna get some hits in!"
Oliant: Berserker!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh, bleh - I cannot receive PMs, PERFERSSERGEE - the email addy attached to this account has been dead for years.
If it *really* needs privacy I can sort a dead-drop box for ya, maybe.
-Frem
"A curse on upon you... a curse upon you all.."
Frem,
No need, what I said in my PM was that I had multiple connections (professional and personal) with the topic you and I (and Byte, and others) were addressing, which is actually a bit different than this particular thread. I'll need some time to address the issue in a coherent way, and I'll start a new thread when I have it together. 'til then,
perfessergee
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Well, I think it's absolutely and directly related in many ways, myself - this kind of incident is a natural fallout thereof, leastways in my opinion.
Certainly looking forward to further discussion though.
-Frem
There always has to be a price.
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Sig
Caught it. Yay. More misinformation about proto-inca civilizations. Caral and co destroyed their own environment, committing suicide, and ecocide.
Lack of war occurs in homogenous societies, there's is a lack of anyone to fight. They're far from unique.
Not an advocate for war, just an advocate for reality over the liberal fantasy that there was once an idyllic society that we should all emulate. Honestly, *anything* looks good by comparison.
Descendents of Caral et al would be conquered by the Wari, and that civilization would be even worse. There's no win here, it's lose-lose.
This liberal fantasy resurfaces time after time with any civilization in which there is not enough information.
Reality: Humans are just a freak evolution of the bonobo ape, and animal that fights wars, has patriarchical societies, and is capable of acts of violence. If it's any consolation to the left, they're also all vegetarians, they have no rape, and they do have homosexuality. You want to know what humans are like, study animals.
Anyone who does not prepare for the eventuality of war is doomed, there's really nothing more to say about it. Homogeneous monoethnic societies are peaceful until they meet someone else who wants their land and resources. That didn't happen to Caral because they were so incredibly destructive they killed themselves and every other species of life they met before they met any other humans. Great.. There's a society to emulate.
"Open war is upon you, whether you would risk it or not."
Sorry, I'm trying to read this kinda interesting stuff on psychology.
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