The Anticipation Of Serenity

POSTED BY: PenguinRTR
UPDATED: Thursday, February 24, 2005 18:11
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AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Shiny wrote:
Quote:
The downside to this is that a lot MORE people will ignorantly think "ah, more crappy teenie-bopper-goth-vampire-nonsense" and NOT see Firefly because of the association with Buffy and Angel. There are probably more of these types than there are Angel/Buffy fans who have never heard of Firefly...

Agreed. Joss has grown beyond BtVS and Angel. Did anyone expect him not to mature? He now appeals to a more mature and discerning audience, while retaining his rabid core fanbase. Trying to sell FF with BtVS and AtS has always been the wrong tactic.

Still, I think the movie has a chance to do very well at theatres, without the Buffy/Angel pump. Original + TV = Death; Original + Movies = Success. People want something different and entertaining at the theatre; Serenity should give them their money's worth.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Yeah, what Zoid said!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

JAA

Tuesday, February 22, 2005 9:18 PM

I feel that your post is not entirely unbiased and somewhat, not to go all seven-year old on you here, but, unfair.

Joss has not grown beyond Angel or Buffy.
Without Angel or Buffy what would Firefly be? Zip, void. It would not exist. I will admit to Buffy being, stereotyping a bit here for all the seasons, somewhat immature. Angel, on the other hand is not immature. It is told differently than Firefly, agreed. But there is a much bigger point in comparing these shows than setting them apart. As far as I am concerned they are all great stories.

These shows are Joss' babies. He holds them all dear, equally. Angel and Buffy have matured and moved on, to a new apartment if you will. Firefly/Serenity is still in Joss' care. He will make this story great, just as he did with Angel and Buffy.

Finally I want to point to existencialism, and just say that all these series exist, undeniably. That is all they do. And I choose to believe that then they are all equally great. None above, none better. Equal.

Sincerly can't wait till the Big Damn Movie's released.

ZOID

Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:14 PM

JAA:

I didn't mean to seem unbiased. I am. I never cared for BtVS or AtS. I do deeply care for Firefly. That's a personal statement of taste. You have every right to differ; but it doesn't change my opinion of Joss' previous work.

In my opinion, Joss has gotten better as a storyteller. That is not an unexpected evolution, given the innate talent he inarguably possesses, embodied in the nascent genius in his previous works.

Being somewhat in touch with the artistic spirit myself, allow me to spin you a little analogy in order to better illuminate my previous commentary...

Teenage boy sits in bedroom, learning to play guitar by listening to and emulating music on his radio. It happens that he has a natural gift for his chosen instrument. Eventually, he joins a garage band, composed of his schoolmates. They play birthday parties and perhaps even a school dance or two, featuring covers of popular music.

The band members graduate from high school. Everyone except for the guitarist goes on to college or the 'real world' of survival in the workplace. But the guitarist is cemented to his art, and pursues it as a career. He finds other likeminded musicians, they form a new band and turn 'pro'. They start gigging at local clubs.

Suddenly, the guitarist -- who was the 'local rock god' in high school -- is faced with much stiffer competition, in order to successfully appeal to a more sophisticated audience. As a result of this stimulus, he gets better, more proficient with his instrument. As the years go by, he spends more and more time, attention and energy perfecting his craft.

Even though he had all the talent in the world, while sitting in his bedroom (driving his parents nuts, btw), it took years of practice, struggle and application to fully mature into a great guitarist.

The same is true for any artist, in any medium. Regardless how talented from the outset an artist may be, the keys to mastery of one's chosen art form are time, practice and application. (NB: Artistic types get loads of pain and deprivation in their lives naturally, to properly season their creations.)

As a result, a true artist gets better with time. This is not to say that the artist is ashamed of the process that leads from garage to concert stage (or from writer on 'Buffy the Movie' to director of 'Serenity'). The progression is integral to the performer the artist becomes. But that 'becoming' is always the goal just out of arm's reach, until the day the artist dies (or becomes an executive programming director for F*x TV, which ever occurs first).

In summation, Joss has matured into a master storyteller. I expect he will continue to grow and explore his medium, and that we will be the beneficiaries of his growth as an artist.

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Sometimes an artist 'loses his instrument' by becoming too engrossed with the accolades he receives and the trappings of success. Think Elvis or George Lucas and iterate ad infinitum... And yet fanatics will continue to slavishly praise them, strictly because of their status as pop icons. The work is what's important. Hopefully, when Joss decides to venture into new territories, we'll enjoy that new work because of its own merits, not Firefly's or any of his previous creations.

P.P.S.
Y'all know Ronnie Van Zant flew that plane into the swamp 'cause he just couldn't bear to hear a crowd scream, "Freebird!" one more time. Sorry, Ronnie; just joshin'.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

NWUKSTEVE

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 12:23 AM

My (drunken having just got back from the pub) thoughts...

I'm a huge fan of both Buffy and Angel (B/A), and agree that Firefly would appeal to many fans of those shows. However, there are also many people out there who pre-judge B/A (there's a reason why they never did anything at the Emmys (sp?), and that reason is NOT because they didn't deserve to). So I think the best bet for Serenity is not to mention B/A. There may be a few B/A fans who don't know about Firefly, but there are far more people who might be put off if they did know the connection.

---
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson

SMURFETTE

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:25 AM

I think everyone's opinion has been valid. The buffy/angel association may not be so terrible. I would never gotten into firefly, had I not known that it had been created by Joss. I fell in love with Buffy and Angel, and when I finally saw firefly was being screened on TV here (I'm in New Zealand) I actually made an effort to see it because of my prior admiration of Joss. I can say with honesty that because of the crappy time it is on, and the little exposure it gets, I would'nt have bothered if I had'nt known that it was created by the same creator as Buffy. There probably isn't a need to state "from the creator of Buffy" because real Joss fans would have made the leap to watching firefly anyway. For the more fickle, I am still divided. My friends (who watch Buffy and a lot of mainstream TV) would be far more likely to go watch serenity if they knew it was directed by the same guy who made Buffy.

THEDARKSHAPE

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 5:55 AM

Quote:
Think Elvis or George Lucas and iterate ad infinitum...

So you're saying that certain people, like myself, or so devoid of personal taste that we'll only enjoy a film because of the name under the "Directed by" credit?

Boy. I really should love Return of the Jedi then, since 90% of that was a Lucas flick.

Now, ahem, back on topic. Go Serenity

RAT

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:11 AM

Looks like I don't have to remind them!!

-Ratboy

JAA

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 8:45 AM

I respect your POV. Chronologically Joss has evolved from Joss of then to Joss of now. Subsequently his writing has changed, evolved. Is it subsequently better? That we cannot say, because it cannot be, singularly, unanimously, defined.

The important thing that we agree on is that the writer Joss is today he is because of all his work.

Should Serenity be presented as "Directed by the creator of Angel and Buffy"? No. The reasons have been stated before. I also think that Serenity should stand on it's own feet, and I believe that it will.

Sincerly can't wait till the Big Damn Movie's released.

ZOID

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:11 PM

TheDarkShape wrote:

Quote:
So you're saying that certain people, like myself, or so devoid of personal taste that we'll only enjoy a film because of the name under the "Directed by" credit?

Boy. I really should love Return of the Jedi then, since 90% of that was a Lucas flick.

Now, ahem, back on topic. Go Serenity

While this appears to be a rhetorical question, I'd still like to respond. My statement about artists who've lost their instrument because -- in their mind -- they've transcended their art, while forgetting that it was dedication to their art that brought them to public prominence, was not intended as an insult to their fanatical followers, per se. Every fan (short for 'fanatic') follows promising artists to some degree. Past success is a promise of future artistic growth and excellence.

But if the artist goes to such extremes of ego, they deserve to be cut loose from fan support. In fact, it is our duty as fans to cut them loose -- to give them a needed wakeup call, and to give our support to other more deserving artists. But where is the dividing line? One half-hearted movie or album of music? Two?

Furthermore, if our favorite artist(e) becomes formulaic or hackneyed, should this change our opinion of the artist's entire body of work, even the past brilliance? Those questions (and at least twenty subsequent questions they beg) are rhetorical. Each person will answer them for her/himself, and the answers will vary.

The artist must take chances, in order to grow and not become sedentary. Failures -- or less than resounding results, anyway -- are to be expected when taking risks. I wouldn't withdraw my support because an artist wasn't 'as brilliant' at a risky venture; but I would if they were playing safe, and using a commercial formula to bilk fans out of their emotional and monetary support, trading strictly on name recognition.

Every artist (with very few exceptions) reaches a human limit. Writers get exhausted of fresh new ideas. Singers get old and wear out their voices. Actors age and have trouble finding expansive middle- or late-age roles; or otherwise reach their limit to lie convincingly; or are type-cast to the extent that they are unbelievable in other vehicles. But I believe we can tell the difference between 'trying' and 'phoning it in'; we can tell the difference between dedication and resting on one's laurels.

As a final note, I believe Joss Whedon's potential as a storyteller is only limited by his physical boundaries: the time and mental energy required to create new stories. It may be that his emotional investment in his characters is not only what makes them so immediate and believable, but also becomes the limiting factor in how many new worlds he can create to such a high degree of fidelity. But I'm betting on Joss -- investing my fanatical support in him -- to a degree I haven't done since "Return of the Jedi", which you deprecatingly mentioned. Lucas has betrayed his followers since then, by over-commercialization of his movie properties and by using the actual movies as little more than test beds for ILM, which is his true going concern, in my opinion. I sincerely hope JW remains true to his art, throughout his career, and provides us with ever more enchanting stories and characters. He owes us his best efforts, as the price of the prodigious artistic gift he has been endowed with. That is the focus every master artist must maintain, else lose their instrument...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I will be seeing SW EpIII: The Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal, when it comes out in theatres, like most of the other humans on the planet. I can only hope that Lucas has turned from the dark path of formulaic commercialism he has chosen to walk throughout these prequels and returned to artistry, even while the entire universe he has created is cast into darkness in its conclusion. It's a slim hope, granted; but while we live there is the hope of redemption. That's the messag

ZOID

Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:43 PM

A quick example of one facet of 'formulaic commercialism', for clarification:

Acceptable:
Toymaker: "Mr. Lucas, we've seen your movie and it gives us an idea for a line of toys."

Unacceptable:
LucasArts Toy Division Marketing Manager: "Mr. Lucas, my Master, we've come up with a toy character concept that resembles a cross between a pet iguana and an adorable beagle puppy. Would it be possible to fit such a character into the next movie?"

v/r,
-zed

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