Real World Event Discussions

Are we animals, or something else?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:47
VIEWED: 10390
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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:11 PM

How neat! They do respond to higher-pitched voices rather than lower-pitched ones. And most whales and dolphins find us endlessly fascinating in one way or another. That was quite an experience, and you're right and so is the trainer; somehow you connected with her. Can't explain any of it, of course, but I'd love to have seen it! There's such a feeling of "touching" one another with them, even when no physical touching is involved.

The night shifts were tough. There would be three or four of us because nobody could stay in the water long (we were all volunteers from Marine Mammal Center, so didn't have wetsuits, etc.). The water was only four or so feet deep, and we just walked around with them, supporting them. The warmth of their bodies, movement of muscles, inhaling and exhaling...you could never forget it.

The reason we weren't supposed to let the dolphins pull us around is 'cuz it can damage the dorsal--I HATE seeing them do it in shows. Although they say the reason killer whales' dorsals bend over is because they're not out in the wild with ocean currents, what they don't tell you is that some of it is also caused by pulling the humans around in shows. That's why I got in trouble.

We had to swim with this guy because he was a Pacific Whiteside--they are very social and don't do well in captivity, so we needed to keep someone in the pool all the time because they were delicate and lost without their pod. But we were just supposed to swim around, "be there" in essence. They never let me swim with another; nobody but myself to blame, but we sure had fun!

There's nothing like being in the water with them, OR talking to them like you did. Sea World has a big area where you can touch them if they let you--we got to go down there after hours via a Marine Mammal Conference, and it was a real experience. Without a ton of tourists ringing the pool making noise, they were much more likely to come over and interact. I always felt badly about that pool, tho' big it was only five or six feet deep and had several bottlenosed in it, seemed like such a confined space...

Dolphins and whales should be wild, end of story. You just can't make them happy in enclosed spaces after being in the vast oceans...they and seals get intellectual exercise working with humans, which helps, but it's not the same and it's wrong.

It's not the same with other species; big cats for example sleep most of the time and seem quite content to have their food provided (IF they have a decent outdoor enclosure), and it's the same with many other species--IF the zoo is a modern one that attempts to create a natural setting.

But dolphins and whales NEED intellectual stimulation, and their lives in the wild are easy; food is plentiful, predators are few and, in a pod, easily deterred, so they have so much time to just enjoy themselves and challenge themselves mentally, it's a whole different thing.

It's one of the maqin reasons I can never deny that we are just one species among many, it's just too damned obvious they think, laugh, figure out puzzles, communicate, interact with other species, and so on. Have you seen the bubble-blowing activities of dolphins in captivity? I feel sorry for them, having to create games on their own, yet in awe of their abilities and how they've figured out they can "play" with the bubble ring. Saddens and impresses me at the same time.

As to doing what you dreamed of...yes, it was unforgettable, but at the same time we were no more than 35% or so successful (even more than seals, sick or injured dolphins don't usually beach themselves until they are VERY weak)...we didn't save the Pacific Whiteside, or the Pilot Whale, and that tears you apart.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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RUE
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:25 PM

"... they and seals get intellectual exercise working with humans, which helps, but it's not the same and it's wrong."

Yeah - I get that. It's like being a kid staying in your room with only your video games - except its for years on end. I feel claustrophic and quietly mad just thinking about it.


I SHOULD have put my hand out. Now I'll never know ...

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Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:24 PM

You nailed it. But don't regret not putting your hand out, rather revel in the fact that you touched her in some way that made her want to see you as an individual of interest...not too many of us get that honor. The animals I worked with never saw me any differently than they saw anyone else who worked with them; if any of them had, I'd have felt extremely honored. You should.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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RUE
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:28 PM

Then I will. Thank you.

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Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by perfessergee:
Quote:

Apparently not, as Ardi walked upright, based on hipbone and foot structure. The other major suprise comes from the fact that Ardi is more than 6 million years old - about 2 million years older than the split between chimps and us. And Ardi is more like us than a chimp. We had always thought that the common ancestor would be chimplike, and that we evolved from that state into the animal that we now are. In other words, we not only didn't evolve from chimps or the other animals currently called "great apes" they evolved from us!



I agree with almost everything you have said here. I was just trying to get across the point that our common ancestor with the chimp may not have been the ape like creature that has been assumed in the past. I wasn’t trying to imply that we aren’t closely related to the chimp, only that because the split came so much earlier than had previously been suspected that maybe a redefinition of what is an ape is in order. Citizen thinks we are apes because we share a common ancestor with the chimp. We also share a common ancestor with the cat and about 90% of our DNA. We share a common ancestor and DNA with all animal life on earth, how we choose to define ourselves is up to us.

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I'd also question your assertion that making other species go extinct makes us superior, but I guess that depends on how you define "superior". A survivor most definitely - we've certainly survived all of our closest relatives (neandertals, Homo erectus, Homo floresensis), and all of our other close relatives (chimps, gorillas and orangutans) are highly endangered in the wild, mostly as a result of human activity. Not a record I'd point to with pride and assert our superiority.



I never said that we are superior to species we killed off. I said we are superior to those that didn’t survive due to natural selection. That’s kind of the whole idea behind survival of the fittest.
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I'd go with Chris's "well groomed talking chimps".


I think what you have pointed out is that it would be more appropriate to call a chimp in a tuxedo just a well dressed Quadra pedal human. As you have said they my have evolved from us and not the other way around.





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RUE
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:07 AM

Just want to point out that they did not evolve from us - we both evolved from a common ancestor.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Niki

It sounds like you did what I dream of doing.

I wish I could remember the thread - to recap:

I was at the Shedd Aquarium and they were doing their last demo for the day about belugas - what they eat, how they communicate etc. At the end everyone else in the audience got up and left. I don't know whatever possessed me, but I stayed and decided to go down to the railing and literally TALK to the whales (there were three belugas). I thought about what they would hear well and it occurred to me that they would either be attuned to low pitches (carries well in water) or high pitches (communication). So I pitched my voice higher, like baby-talk. And one of the belugas spy-hopped for the whole 15 minutes I was there, just staring at me. Never once did she take her eyes off of me or change position in the water. (Though for a while she turned her head to look at me with one eye, and a few minutes later turned her head to look at me with the other eye, then resumed looking at me with both eyes.)

I have NO idea what transpired. But I was SO tempted to put my hand out - I just had this gut feeling that if I did, something would have happened.

One of the trainers was standing nearby watching the whole thing. Afterwards she remarked that she had never seen anything like that before.


***************************************************************

Silence is consent.



Rue,

I had a close encounter with a couple of belugas, years ago at the Tacoma Zoo. I was there to give a talk about penguins to the staff and they took me into the back pools where they were keeping their belugas temporarily. I was wearing a jacket and tie, so the Curator of Birds and Mammals, who was with me, warned me that they might spit seawater on me for fun, and to watch out. They came right to the edge of the pool, let me touch their heads, and talked to me. I could actually hear the sound coming out through the melon (they had their mouths open at the time, and it was kind of weird to hear their clicks and have the sound not coming from their mouths). Of course I was talking back to them, and I suspect we all wished we could understand what the other was saying - we're just too different. And then one of them turned and spat on the curator, who was standing next to me. It was a lot of water and he got soaked. I have no doubt it was deliberate, as it was extremely accurate, and I had the strong impression that the beluga thought it was funny (I managed to keep from laughing myself - the curator was ticked!).

And then they let me massage and play with an orphaned baby harbor porpoise who craved attention. It was an awesome afternoon!

perfessergee

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:07 PM

Oh, I envy YOU, too, especially as I've always been fascinated by belugas, but never seen one in real life! I also have no doubt that the belugas easily discerned you from the curator, and knew which one to splash! Sounds like you connected as well, I'm happy for you. I have no doubt it was awesome; all my dealings with dolphins/porpoises have left indellible impressions on me for the rest of my life. They are truly unique, wonderful critters.

p.s., I have NO doubt they were laughing; dolphin sense of humor is well recognized.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, June 3, 2024 2:47 PM

Sperm whale speech — with ‘alphabet’ — is decoded. What other animals can AI translate?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sperm-whale-speech-alphabet-decoded-2225254
54.html

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