human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 19:38
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Quote:Fact: 99 percent of wastewater is just water; the other 1 percent is solids, chemicals, nutrients, fats, and other pollutants.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:It's called India
SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.Quote:You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?
SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.
Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage
They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.
YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.
https://wateruseitwisely.com/blog/journey-pipes-happens-wastewater/
The major products of the complete combustion of petroleum-based fuels in an internal combustion engine is water (13%), with nitrogen from air comprising most (73%) of the remaining exhaust. Carbon dioxide (13%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK531294/
Signym, there is the problem. 13% of combustion exhaust is waste needing to be buried.
Only 1% of sewage is a waste needing to be buried. The rest is water or nitrogen.
An average passenger car in operation can emit about 5 U.S. tons of CO2 per year. The average passenger in that car flushes about 0.5 U.S. tons of toilet paper and excrement down the toilet per year. CO2 is at least an order of magnitude larger problem than sewage.
https://today.tamu.edu/2021/09/14/captured-water-carbon-dioxide-from-c
ar-exhaust-could-help-grow-food/
Signym, how much does it cost to run all the sewage treatment plants in America? Call it $66 billion per year in 2019. Since CO2 is about 13 times more waste, it will probably cost about 13 times $66 billion per year. Round that to $1 trillion per year for handling CO2. GDP at this moment is $27 trillion.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/192838/revenue-from-us-wastewater-
treatment-since-2000/
If you only consider working adults paying for taking CO2 out of the air, the cost is $6,000 per year for each of them. Alternatively, rather than spending $6,000 per year on handling waste CO2 because you forever refuse to stop using fossil fuels, you could spend some of that $6,000 per year on buying an electric car and upgrading the electric generating systems.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
SECOND::Imagine a world where there were no sewage treatment plants.
SIGNY: It's called India
SECOND: What a messy and disgusting world that would be. Now imagine a world, the one we live in, where CO2 floods the environment like an overflowing toilet. It is everywhere and it is ruining everything it touches.
Until CO2 is treated as a waste product like sewage
SIGNY: You DO know how sewage treatment plants work, don't you?
They work by speeding up natural processes. Same with CO2 removal.
YOUR idea of decarbonizing the world is the equivalent of telling the world "HEY, STOP SHITTING!" to solve the sewage problem. Well, unlike shitting, we can actually reduce our carbon emissions. But we can't stop them entirely.
SECOND: Fact: 99 percent of wastewater is just water; the other 1 percent is solids, chemicals, nutrients, fats, and other pollutants.
https://wateruseitwisely.com/blog/journey-pipes-happens-wastewater/
The major products of the complete combustion of petroleum-based fuels in an internal combustion engine is water (13%), with nitrogen from air comprising most (73%) of the remaining exhaust. Carbon dioxide (13%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK531294/
That's assuming the fuel has the general formula CH2. OTOH if you burn methane CH4 you create half of the CO2. That's why methane is such a good intermediate fuel. Methanol, tho lower BTU, is also a solution. (Literally)
Quote:Not necessarily...
Signym, there is the problem. 13% of combustion exhaust is waste
Quote:Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :
SECOND: ... needing to be buried.
Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.
Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
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Quote:The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added. If you think mining coal and drilling for oil was a big deal, imagine undoing/reversing all that work at ten times the normal speed. It will be ultra unnatural, even more so than huge machines moving mountains of rock in the 20th Century to strip mine for coal.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :
Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.
Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:OR WHAT?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :
Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.
Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go
SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.
What is your goal? On what endpoint and timeline was this caculated?
Sounds purposefully alarmist to me. I'd sure like to see the assumptions that this is based on.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
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You really get carried away with sound-bites, don't you, SECOND?
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
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Utility says California needs US$370 billion for grids and generation to meet net zero
($370 billion divided by 39 million population equals $9,500 each)
By Will Norman
September 20, 2023
California Independent Systems Operator (CAISO) grid capacity has grown by about 2GW/year in the last two years, Edison said, but will need to increase to around 8GW/year through to 2045 if it is to keep pace with the targets. The report said CAISO’s transmission network currently consists of around 26,000 circuit miles; adding another 120GW of new clean energy capacity – which Edison said is needed – will require another 20,000 miles of 500kV transmission, representing around US$75 billion.
CAISO approved a, somewhat scaled back, transmission plan in May that would add 45 projects with a potential solar PV capacity addition of 17GW over the next decade.
Edison also said that the distribution grid connecting its electricity customers to power will need to be expanded at tenfold its historical rate. An incremental investment of around US$50 billion will be needed to deploy around 1,400 new distribution circuits, the equivalent of 85 new distribution substations, and upgrade more than a third of the existing substations.
“The stakes are higher than they have ever been for expanding the electric system to meet decarbonisation goals safely, reliably and affordably,” said Pedro J Pizarro, president and CEO of Edison International.
The report itself reiterated that: “More than ever before, clarity is urgently needed to ensure the most cost-effective upgrades are built in time to interconnect new resources.”
https://www.pv-tech.org/utility-says-california-needs-us370-billion-fo
r-grids-and-generation-to-meet-net-zero/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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We’re past the point of no return on climate emissions — it’s time we turn to carbon removal
by Sir David King and Sware Semesi, opinion contributors - 09/21/23 1:30 PM ET
Covering 70 percent of the planet, the ocean has borne the brunt of damage caused by our disrupted climate — absorbing more than 90 percent of the excess heat trapped on the planet, and 26 percent of all civilization’s carbon dioxide pollution.
While this has shielded humanity and terrestrial ecosystems, the effects in the ocean are alarming: unprecedented warming, acidification, deoxygenation, and a host of related changes that further undermine the stability of our climate. Decreasing emissions must remain an urgent priority of the global community, but the problem is this: Even if we stop all emissions today, existing carbon pollution in the air will continue to warm the planet to devastating levels.
New tools are urgently needed to restore the climate and repair the ocean, particularly carbon dioxide removal, including potential ocean-based pathways.
The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has made clear that large-scale carbon dioxide removal will be needed this century to hold temperatures to a 1.5 degrees Celsius increase — the goal set out in the Paris Agreement. And if we aspire to ultimately re-cool the planet, carbon dioxide removal is the only tool that can remove the legacy carbon dioxide pollution that otherwise will stay in the atmosphere for hundreds or thousands of years.
More at https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/4213981-were-past-the-p
oint-of-no-return-on-climate-emissions-its-time-we-turn-to-carbon-removal/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:I see you avoided answering the question.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:OR WHAT?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or captured. Yanno, there is such a thing as a nitrogen cycle and another such thing as a carbon cycle. It turns out, our wastes overwhelm both. There are several solutions to the problem :
Reduce the amount of waste
Enhance the natural cycles
Industrially bury our waste...the "midden solution" where we bury our waste and hope it doesn't come burping back up.
Fortunately sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate are pretty innocuous compounds, so if we can turn CO2 into Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 we're good to go
SECOND: The CO2 that is already in the atmosphere will have to be subtracted at a rate about ten times faster than the CO2 was added.
What is your goal? On what endpoint and timeline was this caculated?
Sounds purposefully alarmist to me. I'd sure like to see the assumptions that this is based on.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I get it. You are playing a game where you will do nothing, support nothing, understand nothing unless I persuade you. I'm not playing that game where I am responsible, per my enemies, for what my enemies do or don't do, believe or don't believe is true. You're the enemy because you are a hopeless mess. There is no way to save you, Signym, other than the supernatural intervenes.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see you avoided answering the question.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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No, I'm merely pointing out that your fatuous statement about "we must capture carbon dioxide at TEN TIMES THE RATE at which it was emitted" was based entirely on... NOTHING.
*****
"We must capture carbon dioxide at ten times the rate it was emitted in order to
...reach pre-industrial levels of atmospheric CO2 in 30 years???
... avoid exceeding the threshold of increasing average global temperature more than 2degC in 15 years???
... make my investment in carbon capture technology profitable??
*****
I mean, WHAT? Apparently even YOU don't know!
Silly, silly man.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME