Angel in love with Cordy or with buffy?

POSTED BY: hawaiiansgirl
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 8, 2005 13:55
VIEWED: 19241
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SARA

Sunday, February 6, 2005 10:32 PM

I don't know what the definition of an "adult" relationship actually is. But I know what I saw and felt with Cordelia/Angel- and yes, part of it was b/c I didn't see the constant doey-eyed swoons and kisses that seemed to perpetually define the Buffy/Angel "romance." I guess I was just able to empathise more with C/A - it wasn't the most overtly of passionate relationships, but it resonated the deepest with me b/c it actually made sense - it was about loyalty, trust, affection, honesty, conversation, mutual respect, understanding etc. Cordelia loved Angel for the vampire that he was and the man that he wanted to be. She fought alongside him, battled with him, made him understood the importance of humanity and his place in the world. She tried to let the soul that often plagued him to sing openly. She never let the demon inside define who he was. She taught him that life was hard but that fighting the good fight meant that sacrifices had to be made.

I always saw ATs as the journey that both Cordelia and Angel took together. I really adore YW b/c it showed A/C as they should have been - two people who just *got* each other in a way that no else could. The irony is that while the episode closed the book on C/A, and as much as the writers just tried to shrug C/A under the carpet by late s4, to me that ep just served to show how far both had come and how much they were meant to be. It was like everything coming full circle for them.

GROUNDED

Monday, February 7, 2005 12:28 AM

I understand all of the above...I just don't think it was ever pulled off on-screen.

SARA

Monday, February 7, 2005 10:22 AM

Fair enough!

WEASY

Monday, February 7, 2005 6:42 PM

The thing is... that all of those things could also be said about B/A. She was the first person to trust him at all... Coredlia initially wouldn't believe he was a vampire, and then was extremely wigged by it, the first time she meets him in season one of Ats she asks if he's still all grr in a classic moment of Cordyness.

IMO She doesn't except his demonness, the way Buffy did. She tries instead to make him more... human, so that her liking him would be okay again as it was when she first crushed on him. Instead of Buffy who truly excepted that the person she loved was both a mix of demon and man - for example when he's all vamp-face and tries to turn away from her (in What's My Line Part 1) and she says she didn't even notice and kisses him anyway.

Coredlia uses his demon side against him constantly (when Connor is born particularly), using it to get what she wants or make points about him without thought of his feelings.
Cordelia accepts Angel as long as he surpresses the demon side of him.

Buffy always accepted all of him... even when it freaked her out and she needed time to deal... she always comes back to help him.
And Angel is not just the soul part of him - Angel is the soul with the demon whispering in his ear. IMO Coredlia never understood that, when Buffy did and it's one of the key differences between their relationships.

'Ships aren't rational at the best of times - and if you connect with C/A then that's fine - it's really not worth starting a fight about, I just get really annoyed and frustrated when people say B/A isn't worthy because it's not adult. Because I think it is... and I think I have good reason to think it is.

If nothing else... how much does it matter anyway? All sides have great quotes and moments and fans (well - some of them have more of a vigillante group than others *cough*spuffy*cough*) and that's enough. The shows are over now. These things are mostly better just left alone.

So I'm going to leave this thread with a moment of 'shipperly pride,
A couple of quotes from our beloved Joss:

Quote:
"It was important for David to come and do, which is really sweet considering he's all over the end of Angel at the same time. It means a lot to me and Sarah and David and the writing staff as storytellers, because Angel was there from the beginning and because their relationship transcends everything." - On Angel's apearance at the end of BtVS

Buffy loves Angel. And he loves her. And I love Ho-hos."

"It's an eternal love, don't get me wrong; I realize that."

"That was one of our thinner metaphors. That, ah, you know, that was really pretty close to the surface. But you know, those two people, you know, were so much in love that I thought it was a genuinely erotic scene, and not, you know, exploitive." - RE the bite scene in graduation day part 2

lots more quotes here from all the cast/crew/books/episodes:
http://www.sweetvendetta.com/twinflames/forever.htm

SARA

Monday, February 7, 2005 7:32 PM

Weasy - do you have a ship you'd care to profess an undying love for???? A personal agenda maybe???

I may empathise more with C/A, but I don't really consider myself a "shipper." It just seemed to be one of Whedon's more realistic couple portrayals. I don't get why *you* are so worked up over it though...I mean dragging up 'David loves Sarah, Sarah loves David' quotes, the crew talking about how transcendent B/A were, are, forever will be. Yeah, coz cookie dough really smacks of maturity Joss. I've got no problems jumping on the "B/A 4 Eva" bandwagon if it will make you feel a lilwillbit better.........

GROUNDED

Monday, February 7, 2005 11:22 PM

The Angel appearance in Chosen was hopeless. Of course not quite as ridiculously awful as all the Buffy/Spike stuff that preceded it, but hey ;)

ZEEK

Monday, February 7, 2005 11:35 PM

I agree. Angel's part in the last two episodes of Buffy was pretty bad. I was expecting to see Buffy, Spike, Angel and Faith fighting side by side. How cool would that have been?

The worst part was Angel getting up after being knocked down by Shepherd Mal then like a good minute or so later getting up and giving the line "where is he?". More like "where have you been Angel"?

My vote still goes for B&A though.

WEASY

Tuesday, February 8, 2005 1:55 PM

I never said I *wasn't* horribly biased did I?

I just believe myself biased with justification - and get really annoyed when people say that B/A isn't adult.

But that was it - that was the end of why I recckoned B/A was better than C/A - that is after all the point of this thread - to discuss why one is better than the other.

I said why I thought so.

And I'm prepared to leave it at that - are you?

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