Some Covid-19 thoughts
POSTED BY: captaincrunch
UPDATED: Monday, September 29, 2025 18:59
VIEWED: 301579
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Quote:The Free Beacon is tacitly claiming that deaths are Biden's fault when deaths are actually because Trump voters and dimwits refuse to get vaccinated and boosted. How many fully vaccinated and boosted died? Zero. Don't believe me? Check it out:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
401,000+ Americans have died from COVID-19 since President Joe Biden took office and promised to "shut down the virus."
https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/biden-covid-death-tracker/
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2021/dec/us
-covid-19-vaccination-program-one-year-how-many-deaths-and
Too bad that The Free Beacon does NOT publicize that. But who wants to understand why Trump voters and fools are dead? Neither the Trump voters nor fools of all political parties want to know.
The U.S. COVID-19 Vaccination Program at One Year: How Many Deaths and Hospitalizations Were Averted?
In the absence of a vaccination program, there would have been approximately 1.1 million additional COVID-19 deaths and more than 10.3 million additional COVID-19 hospitalizations in the U.S. by November 2021.
Without the U.S. vaccination program, COVID-19 deaths would have been approximately 3.2 times higher and COVID-19 hospitalizations approximately 4.9 times higher than the actual toll during 2021.
If no one had been vaccinated, daily deaths from COVID-19 could have jumped to as high as 21,000 per day — nearly 5.2 times the level of the record peak of more than 4,000 deaths per day recorded in January 2021.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2021/dec/us
-covid-19-vaccination-program-one-year-how-many-deaths-and
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:It's possible that the populations are self-selected, that is, the people who got vaccinated are wealthier, better-educated, have healthier lifestyles, have better insurance or better access to healthcare, or differ by some other factor that caused the disparity. There is no mention of correcting for these other factors.
Originally posted by second:
Those mRNA vaccines are hot stuff! Maybe.
by Kevin Drum
A reader brought to my attention a CDC study of COVID-19 from late October that compared the mortality rate of vaccinated people vs. unvaccinated people. However, this study didn't do the usual boring thing and investigate deaths from COVID. It investigated deaths from non-COVID causes. Surprisingly, it turned out that mortality from non-COVID causes was way lower for people who had been vaccinated with either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm#T2_down
The standardized mortality rate from non-COVID causes was about 0.35 for vaccinated people vs. 1.11 for non-vaccinated people. This disparity held for all age groups, all races and ethnicities, and for both men and women. The disparity was biggest among the Black community: the unvaccinated mortality rate was more than 4x that of the vaccinated.
I am suspicious of these results, but not because I have any specific objections to the data gathering or the statistical analysis. Somebody with access to the raw data would have to comment on that.
However, I'm routinely suspicious of studies that show gigantic results. I mean, if these vaccines had some odd property that reduced your mortality rate by 10% or 20% or so, I might buy it. But 3x or more? That's beyond belief.
There's also this: I couldn't find any critiques of this study. Why? If these results are real, every medical researcher in the world should be gobsmacked. Money should be pouring into research labs that want to investigate what's going on. But that doesn't seem to be the case. These results were reported fairly widely when the study came out, but the mainstream press mostly ignored it and after that it disappeared. This makes no sense.
If this study is true, it's yet another great reason to get vaccinated—and to get happily boosted every year. But I would hold on for some independent confirmation before I started celebrating.
https://jabberwocking.com/those-mrna-vaccines-are-hot-stuff-maybe/
"Lower rates of non–COVID-19 mortality in vaccinated groups suggest that COVID-19 vaccinees are inherently healthier or engage in fewer risk behaviors (7,8); future analyses will address these issues." -- https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
That's the problem with correlation:
A causes B,
B causes A,
A and B are caused by C,
sheer coincidence
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Could be a coincidence that only applies to approximately 11 million persons enrolled in seven Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) sites:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's possible that the populations are self-selected, that is, the people who got vaccinated are wealthier, better-educated, have healthier lifestyles, have better insurance or better access to healthcare, or differ by some other factor that caused the disparity. There is no mention of correcting for these other factors.
That's the problem with correlation:
A causes B,
B causes A,
A and B are caused by C,
sheer coincidence
1) Kaiser Permanente (KP) Southern California, Pasadena, California;
2) KP Northern California, Oakland, California;
3) KP Colorado, Denver, Colorado;
4) KP Northwest, Portland, Oregon;
5) KP Washington, Seattle, Washington;
6) HealthPartners, Minneapolis, Minnesota;
7) Marshfield Clinic, Marshfield, Wisconsin.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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What I wonder is... there are many ??? about whether the vaccines protect against Omicron bc it has so many mutations in it's spike protein.
Seems like it is mild enough to be almost a moot point.
But what about the reverse? Does an Omicron infection protect ppl against the previous variants?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:The study obviously involves people who have private medical insurance. (The population from which it was drawn were mainly Kaiser enrolees specifically.) That makes that population different from people who are on Medicare/ Medicaid/ have no insurance, who primarily tend to be poor and also non-white.
Could be a coincidence that only applies to approximately 11 million persons enrolled in seven Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) sites:
1) Kaiser Permanente (KP) Southern California, Pasadena, California;
2) KP Northern California, Oakland, California;
3) KP Colorado, Denver, Colorado;
4) KP Northwest, Portland, Oregon;
5) KP Washington, Seattle, Washington;
6) HealthPartners, Minneapolis, Minnesota;
7) Marshfield Clinic, Marshfield, Wisconsin.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7043e2.htm
To me the study shows a selection bias based on income, which also translates population-wise to a selection bias based on ethnic groups.
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Trump may be losing some hard-core supporters over his recent endorsement of the COVID-19 vaccine, but at least one of his most outspoken allies still has his back.
Far-right Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., relayed Trump’s position on Twitter Monday, apparently attempting to assure skeptics that Trump’s promotion of the jab does not equal support for COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
“I have President Trump’s permission to tell you all that he is 100% AGAINST the mandates, but he still encourages everyone to get the vaccine and booster,” Greene wrote, saying she had just spoken to him on the phone. “That is his position. He also said if he was President he would never mandate the vaccines, and no one would be fired [for not getting vaccinated].”
While the freshman congresswoman did not go so far as to advocate getting inoculated against COVID herself, the post was notable in light of Greene’s own track record as both an opponent of the vaccine and a constant source of misinformation about the coronavirus.
The tweet seems to reflect the awkward position many outspoken supporters of the former president have found themselves in as a result of his recent vaccine advocacy. At an event with former Fox News host Bill O’Reilly in Dallas on Dec. 19, Trump confirmed that he had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and revealed that he had received a third shot, a comment that prompted boos from some people in the audience. In another interview with conservative commentator Candace Owens later that week, Trump continued to tout the efficacy of the COVID vaccines, which were developed under his administration.
“The vaccine is one of the greatest achievements of mankind,” Trump told Owens. “And if you take the vaccine, you’re protected. The results of the vaccine are good.”
The comments drew immediate criticism from some prominent far-right figures, like conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who said Trump’s words were “nothing but a raft of dirty lies” and warned, “You are either completely ignorant ... or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived.” Others, like MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and pro-Trump lawyer Lin Wood, attempted to defend Trump. In a statement to the Daily Beast last week, Lindell said that while he is “100% against the vaccine!” he wasn’t concerned about Trump’s support for it because “he is 100% against mandates!” Wood suggested Trump’s vaccine endorsement was part of his “wartime strategy” and urged followers to hold off on “passing judgment.”
Even Owens seemed caught between supporting the former president and opposing the vaccine after her interview with Trump, saying that while she had “no issue with any person who wants to get the vaccine,” she did not trust it and would “never, ever” let it into her body.
Monday’s messaging appeared to be Greene’s attempt to reconcile the recent comments made by her “favorite president of all time” with her own vociferous anti-vax stance.
More at https://news.yahoo.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-tries-to-explain-trumps-
pro-vaccine-stance-bashes-mandates-185001566.html
Marjorie Taylor Greene @mtgreenee tweeted:
1. I just got off the phone with my favorite President of all time, Donald J. Trump.
We discussed many issues, people, races in ‘22 as well as vaccines and mandates.
We discussed #COVID19, how awful the virus from China has been, and how horribly it’s been politicized.
2. I have President Trump’s permission to tell you all that he is 100% AGAINST the mandates, but he still encourages everyone to get the vaccine and booster.
That is his position.
He also said if he was President he would never mandate the vaccines, and no one would be fired.
3:23 PM · Dec 27, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1475578090025676800
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:About Omicron, vaccines, and mandates in general ...
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I wonder is... there are many ??? about whether the vaccines protect against Omicron bc it has so many mutations in it's spike protein.
Seems like it is mild enough to be almost a moot point.
But what about the reverse? Does an Omicron infection protect ppl against the previous variants?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
I think it all depends on the numbers.
Starting with who is a vulnerable population? Well, people over 65 are at increased risk. There was some question whether they were at risk because of age or because older people have generally collected more co-morbidities than younger people. And the last time I looked (which was a LONG time ago! and which may have changed since then) the opinion was slanted towards co-morbidities. But anyway, there are older people, over 65. And there are people with diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure, high BMI, kidney disease, immune suppression ... and other comorbidities that can occur at any age. When I totalled it all up, over half the population was at increased risk of death for medical reasons.
Then there are people at high risk jobs, essential employees, and so forth who you might also want to protect.
Adding up the medically vulnerable and the people one might want to specially protect, they're clearly the majority of the population, and maybe even the vast majority. So there are a lot of people who could use the protection of vaccination/ boosters, N95 masks, and whatever else you want to implement.
Then there's the impact of large numbers of sick people on the medical system, which might mean other sick people don't get care. And there's also the impact of large numbers of sick people on national health care expenses, and on the economy in general.
So I see a few large impacts from uncontrolled COVID-19 on the country as a whole.
When it comes to children, I have 2 questions 1) are they more or less hurt by vaccination or infection* and 2) do they significantly impact vulnerable populations*.
When it comes to Omicron, preliminary data I saw is that, like with other variants, mRNA vaccines prevent about 2/3* of all infections. But if Omicron is 3x* more transmissible for example, then of course the protection factor is overwhelmed by the transmissibility factor. It's not that vaccination doesn't help, it's that you need to run faster just to stay in place.
To me, the answers lie in the numbers*. What mitigates significant impacts of COVID-19, and what doesn't?
But where are those numbers*? Where are the risk/ benefit analyses* I know must have been done?
In general, every time I see claims and statements made without direct reference to supporting data ... I have serious doubts about validity. That test served me well with Iraq/ WMD and with Trump/ RUSSIA!!!RUSSIA!!!RUSSIA!!!; and with many 'news' events between the two. So when I see overblown 'news' stories about the dangers of COVID-19 vaccinations (untethered to any data or evidence); OR I see bald statements about how everyone needs to be immunized, or else! DOOOOOOMMM!!! (also untethered to any data or evidence) ... I have to put those statements into the 'something smells bad' bin.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. But I have no conclusions, simply because there's no evidence attached to the hype.
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Quote:That's pretty much where I am.
Far-right Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., relayed Trump’s position on Twitter Monday, apparently attempting to assure skeptics that Trump’s promotion of the jab does not equal support for COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
It's like being against the lies being told about Trump without necessarily being "for" him. It's possible to make distinctions between similar things.
Well, not possible for a lot of people here, but ...
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:I'm guessing you don't know Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Greene said COVID was dangerous only to those who were over 65 or obese. She said the vaccines were “failing” and ineffective, though Insider reported last week that she owned shares of three companies that produced vaccines.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That's pretty much where I am.
Far-right Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., relayed Trump’s position on Twitter Monday, apparently attempting to assure skeptics that Trump’s promotion of the jab does not equal support for COVID-19 vaccine mandates.
It's like being against the lies being told about Trump without necessarily being "for" him. It's possible to make distinctions between similar things.
Well, not possible for a lot of people here, but ...
Greene has repeatedly compared those promoting mask and vaccine usage to Nazis, continuing to make the offensive analogy even after issuing a public apology for it. During an appearance on former Trump adviser Steve Bannon’s podcast last month, Greene once again railed against “vaccine Nazis” and stated proudly that she is “not vaccinated, and I’m not getting the vaccine because I’m an American.” Signym, what do you think of that? I think, with such statements, Greene has killed people because she runs her mouth when she should not.
https://news.yahoo.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-tries-to-explain-trumps-
pro-vaccine-stance-bashes-mandates-185001566.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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I know about Greene.
But UNLIKE YOU, I can agree with ONE of her statements without agreeing - or disagreeing- with everything else that she's said on that topic (or any other topic).
That's like with Trump: I agreed with three things that he proposed (free trade, immigration, relations with Russia) I disagreed with other things (Israel, Iran).
Like I said: SOME people here are incapable of distinguishing between similar things. Seems like you're one of those people.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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