Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd
POSTED BY: reaverfan
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 21, 2023 20:22
VIEWED: 7506
PAGE 5 of 8
Quote:They convicted him of second degree murder, which doesn't require intent.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So I want to get back to this for a bit. I haven't really been following this, but I recently read that the prosecution charged Chauvin with two counts of murder AND manslaughter, all for the same event. And the jury found him guilty of all three!
On the face of it, that seems ludicrous. The difference between murder and manslaughter is intention. You can't kill someone both intentionally AND unintentionally.
Just from a layperson's POV, I don't think Chauvin intended to kill anyone. He was using an approved hold. But the hold is only meant to be used while handcuffing, not on a cuffed suspect. Especially not one in distress. There are many points at which Chauvin SHOULD have taken his knee off, but he didn't. My guess is he'd done that many times b4 and so he was careless and maybe callous and grossly mishandled the situation, but death was not the intended outcome.
So I wonder what the jury was thinking, and why they convicted someone of two mutually exclusive crimes.
Or maybe they're as stupid as THUGR, TWITCHY, REAVERBOT, and SECONDRATE? Or maybe they were intimidated by the prospect of mob violence?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
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Ok, so he wasn't convicted on three charges, only one?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
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Quote:
Derek Chauvin never lost control.
Quote:That's why I think there needs to be a 'bright line' policy about putting people prone or restraining them physically AFTER they're handcuffed. There's been too much 'whatever they felt they needed to do at the time' allowance made, based on unexamined assumptions.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, this is not "cold blooded murder", ya boob. Emotional control is how police are SUPPOSED to act.
Do you WANT police to be acting out of panic, or anger, or hyped- up adrenaline?
I'm pretty sure Chauvin did not intend for Floyd to die. He fucked up.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
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Quote:He was convicted of 3, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. This might be an example of "throwing the book at him".
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ok, so he wasn't convicted on three charges, only one?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
Given how vague it seems 'use of force' policies are, though, I think Chauvin acted within policy.
I ALSO think that there's an assumption that for a person to be deemed 'complaint', they need to not be speaking, or moving, AT ALL. And that seemed to be what Cauvin was acting out of, which I think a LOT of cops act out of. I can see how - if a person is unrestrained - one might be concerned that any movement might be them reaching for a weapon. But AFTER they're in cuffs? I truly think there are just too many assumptions in the whole 'use of force' topic, and another one of them is 'compliance'.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Second+degree+murder
second degree murder n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from First Degree Murder which is a premeditated, intentional killing, or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape, or armed robbery.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Do you seriously expect us to believe that cops shot 1000-6000 ppl in the past year?
6ixStringJack:
It's estimated that 1,000 to 6,000 more deaths occurred last year in cities where BLM protested.
REAVERBOT: Because the pigs love to murder black people. Racists love to ghettoize them. Racists like you.
C'mon, when police are acting under a microscope, this wouldn't have escaped notice!
Nope. I didn't say that. Neither did the article I linked.
Quote:
Nah, what REALLY escapes notice is black-on-black, and black-on-everyone-else crime.
That's what the article said.
Quote:
Because, yanno, blacks are automatically victims of "the system" which means that their crimes are automatically excused.
So sayeth BLM/Antifa.
Yup.
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Oh... my bad.
I just realized that question was directed at the mindless Roombot.
Carry on.
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2nd degree murder is intentional but not premeditated .
So, for example, road rage. Some guy cuts you off dangerously, you see red, force him off to the side of the road, grab a tire iron and fully intend to beat him to death.
Heat of passion.
I know different states have different statutory definitions of murder, but by and large (I looked up the diff between murder and manslaughter) murder is intentional, further subdivided between premeditated and not, and manslaughter is unintentional.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/manslaughter-vs-murder/
So unless Minnesota's laws are very strange, you can't be convicted of murder of of 1st or 2nd degree, and manslaughter at the same time. (Minnesota is one of a few states that recognizes third degree murder, which usually means murder in the commission of a felony crime.)
There is probably a problem with "use of force" in policing. Some forces, and some cops, require complete and total submission. Doesn't work when dealing with someone high, crazy, sick, or intellectually impaired.
To get back to Chauvin: in order to convict of murder, you have to believe that he intended to kill Floyd. And then you need to drop the manslaughter charge, bc the two are mutually exclusive.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
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Oh, OK - our definitions seem to differ. But I didn't spend much time on mine, so yours is probably more complete.
Anyway, I think there needs to be some bright-line policies about use of force/ prone positioning AFTER handcuffs (spit hoods) are on. They would protect both the person in custody as well as the police. I think when policies are vague, that makes for shifting interpretations depending on the whims of the moment: in the field, in public opinion, and in the courtroom.
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Let's not forget that dude was bigger than Michael Clarke Duncan and the cop was about 60% of his body weight.
We'd be having a much different conversation if Floyd was Snoop Dogg.
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This is an unpopular verdict...
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-trust-law-enforcement-desire-pro
tect-law-and-order-rise
(This, coming from a polling firm which is skewed heavily to the left and was regularly an outlier showing much lower ratings for Trump's approval than the average in the aggregate... so the numbers are likely even worse for the outcome of the trial.)
Quote:
For example, now, far fewer Americans personally believe George Floyd was murdered (36%) compared to last summer (60%). Though slightly more believe it was an accident (8%, up from 3%), much of this shift has been to respondents saying they don’t know. Currently, 17% say they don’t know how to characterize Floyd’s death, up from 4% in June.
36% think it was murder. That leaves between 1 and 2 out of 5 Democrats even believing that Floyd wasn't murdered... On a poll done by a polling firm that regularly polls more Democrats than Republicans and Independents combined.
Between that, the Legacy Media not shutting the fuck up about it, Maxine and Biden* not shutting the fuck up about it, and a weird outcome where he was charged guilty both of premeditated murder AND manslaughter, it won't be long until he appeals and is acquitted of all charges.
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Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.
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