For Sig: Re Civil War
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, June 12, 2025 05:58
VIEWED: 2076
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That other thread has evolved/devolved into other matters, so I'm posting this separately. Sig spent a lot of time debating that the Civil War was, at its base, about slavery. I argued against that, and still feel it had to do with other issues, but here is an article that reflects her perspective to a degree:Quote:
It has been eight years since people in my state of Virginia got a chance to debate the meaning of the Civil War in front of the nation, and the comments posted on CNN and other news Web sites suggest our passion over the topic has not dimmed.
If Governor Bob McDonnell wants his fellow Virginians to think deeply about "how our history has led to our present," then his declaration of April as Confederate History Month has accomplished this goal, if not exactly in the manner he intended.
The problem with the celebration of Confederate History Month, however, goes far beyond McDonnell's "mistake" in not discussing the centrality of slavery in the Civil War in his original proclamation.
Confederate "history" means more than the four years during which Virginia and other states fought a war to form a separate country called the Confederate States of America. It refers to the many uses of Confederate symbols and evocations of Confederate history in the almost century-and-a-half since Appomattox as well.
This long history offers nothing to memorialize. Former Confederate soldiers quickly formed the Ku Klux Klan after the war to attack Reconstruction officials and the black and white Republicans who were trying to run the state, and they sometimes displayed Confederate symbols as part of their work. After congressional hearings shut down the Klan, copycat organizations continued to make use of Confederate symbols as they engaged in acts of political terrorism.
Former Confederates openly supported and participated in what many white Southerners called the "redemption" of the region, the reassertion of their control over state and local governments as Reconstruction ended.
In the 1870s and 1880s, the decoration of Confederate graves with flowers and flags and celebratory speeches and parades increasingly signaled a commitment to what came to be called the "Lost Cause," a decidedly partisan and self-consciously politicized account of the Civil War.
Though many supporters of secession believed during the Civil War that they were fighting against other Americans over the issue of slavery, amateur and professional historians, many with ties to the Confederacy worked to rewrite this history as a noble fight for states rights and a celebration of the sacrifice of Confederate soldiers. What members of the Sons of the Confederacy offer today as the "true" history of the region has its roots in this effort.
By the end of the 19th century, organizations like the Confederate Veterans and the Daughters of the Confederacy organized public acts of commemoration and the celebration of the "honor" of former Confederates.
Members of these organizations actively used their version of history to support the disfranchisement of African-Americans and the expansion of a white supremacist social order grounded in segregation. Across the region, Jim Crow segregation and Confederate commemoration expanded hand in hand, as the Lost Cause version of the Southern past justified the contemporary elimination of black rights.
When more subtle displays of Confederate symbols and history were not enough, white Southerners violently attacked and murdered African-Americans, sometimes publicly before large crowds. Lynchers sometimes brandished Confederate symbols.
In the early 20th century, monuments to Confederate soldiers appeared on courthouse lawns across the South and on the grounds of southern state capitols, marking these public spaces as the property of the white people who celebrated this "Confederate" version of the past. By the 1920s, a revived Klan made the Confederate battle flag their second-most important symbol, after the fiery cross, as they once again used
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Since that was written by someone from Virginia, I find it hard to disagree. I have no personal experience with people from the south (except brief visit to Birmingham, where I found the folks insular and wary of "strangers").
But statistically, the "south" is currently no more racist than the "north-east", and so I find myself feeling that while the Confederate flag WAS a symbol of slavery and IS a symbol of racism, and was re-purposed in-between by the south, we're not always talking about the same set of people in an unbroken chain of history. White supremacists in Montana, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, and California have appropriated the Confederate flag as their own, even though neither slavery nor the Civil War is part of their history. And those in the South who romanticize the Confederacy are not necessarily racists.
I guess all I was doing was trying to balance the record for southerners who have gentrified the Civil War to the point where slavery no longer appears in the record books. The Civil War WAS primarily about slavery and racism. It was an economic war between a slave-based agrarian economy and a wage-based industrialized economy over the future of the West. Either side would have been severely crippled had "the other" side won the west: the south would have expanded its slave-based cotton plantation wealth, the north needed an outlet for their excess population as well as a source of food for their industrializing base.
Dressing it up with tales of honor, chivalry and states' rights doesn't change that fact, painful as it might be to those who would like to claim their southern (or northern!) heritage.
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In fact, now that I think about it, southerners who romanticize the Civil War are doing their best to disengage the Confederacy from it's history of racism and slavery. In effect, you have people using the Confederacy for two distinct purposes: one group who uses it specifically to rally racists, another group who would really, really like that connotation to fade so they don't have to remember what started it all.
Seems to me that the second group is being dishonest with itself. Not racist, but self-deluding. The Confederate flag has NO history before the Civil War. If southerners want to reclaim a heritage divorced from slavery, they should look to a different symbol than the Confederate flag and a different cause than the civil war. I suggest southern cooking, and bourbon. That's something we can all agree is a contribution!
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I agree, and I think there's more they could be proud of, too, if they wanted to. You're probably right about the two facets who romanticize it or use the flag for racist purposes, and I agree the first is to an extent deluding themselves.
There are many aspects of the "Old South" that ARE pretty and romantic, but completely leaving out that they were made possible by slavery is urealistic. Personally, I would see no problem in revering the romantic aspects of the Old South, as long as it showed the whole picture. It's absurd to ignore it, but put in context it would be a PART of a culture--the problem is we get either "Roots" or "Gone With the Wind"--little in between.
I just thought you'd find that interesting.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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You Shoot Us, We Shoot You,' Columbus Protester Tells Cops
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/20/watch-they-shoot-us-we-s
hoot-them-columbus-protester-tells-cops/
How We Romanticize War!
https://candidobservation.com/2012/02/24/how-we-romanticize-war/
Rightwing Nutbag Tinfoil Head News?
The 5 Reasons America Seems Doomed to Split Up
https://rightwingnews.com/column-2/the-5-reasons-america-seems-doomed-
to-split-up/
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Quote:Odd, seeing how the reichwing you support is constantly murdering people, and you say nothing.
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
You Shoot Us, We Shoot You,' Columbus Protester Tells Cops
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/20/watch-they-shoot-us-we-s
hoot-them-columbus-protester-tells-cops/
How We Romanticize War!
https://candidobservation.com/2012/02/24/how-we-romanticize-war/
Rightwing Nutbag Tinfoil Head News?
The 5 Reasons America Seems Doomed to Split Up
https://rightwingnews.com/column-2/the-5-reasons-america-seems-doomed-
to-split-up/
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No they aren't.
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Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.
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Quote:Do you know who is constantly murdering blacks?
Originally posted by reaverfan:Quote:Odd, seeing how the reichwing you support is constantly murdering people, and you say nothing.
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
You Shoot Us, We Shoot You,' Columbus Protester Tells Cops
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/04/20/watch-they-shoot-us-we-s
hoot-them-columbus-protester-tells-cops/
How We Romanticize War!
https://candidobservation.com/2012/02/24/how-we-romanticize-war/
Rightwing Nutbag Tinfoil Head News?
The 5 Reasons America Seems Doomed to Split Up
https://rightwingnews.com/column-2/the-5-reasons-america-seems-doomed-
to-split-up/
Other blacks.
And yet, you say nothing.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
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Yup.
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Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.
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they got the Mugshot
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