Angel's return from hell

POSTED BY: Zeek
UPDATED: Saturday, January 15, 2005 23:25
VIEWED: 6637
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DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:12 AM

I remember them talking about Buffy's encounter with the First from S3 at SOME point in S7, but it was totally contradictory as to what happened in Amend. In Season 7, Buffy talked about how dangerous the First was, and how she could feel it's power when she faced it and how it felt ancient and old and stuff...but in the episode itself, she just quips a bunch.

Also, when Angel returns in Chosen, he mentions that the First was "the entity that tried to get him to kill himself"... this wasn't the case in the episode, either.

Anyway, I was really hoping for some more crossover in the shows that year. I mean, Faith and Willow crossing over was cool, and the thing at the end with Angel was alright...but I still have this wacky theory that S4 of Angel and S7 of Buffy are secretly connected, or at least were going to be until they decided to go the insane "Jasmine" route with Angel.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

SOUTHERNSLAYER

Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:06 AM

Not trying to stray from the topic but was anyone else hopeing Whistler, Angel's mentor seen in buffy episode becomming would make an appearence in Angel at some point during its run?

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

AMYEL

Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernSlayer:
Not trying to stray from the topic but was anyone else hopeing Whistler, Angel's mentor seen in buffy episode becomming would make an appearence in Angel at some point during its run?

He was supposed to actually be a lead on Angel. Whistler was in the pilot script for Angel. There's probably a copy of it floating around on the Internet somewhere. But Max Perlich, the actor who played him, was unavailable (the rumour was that Max was in jail at the time but who knows what happened). So Joss instead created the character of Doyle to take his place.

Whistler could have showed up again later I guess, but I think that would have just highlighted the fact that Doyle was a modified Whistler.

GROUNDED

Tuesday, January 11, 2005 11:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
So Joss instead created the character of Doyle to take his place.

Whistler could have showed up again later I guess, but I think that would have just highlighted the fact that Doyle was a modified Whistler.

Glenn Quinn auditioned for the part of Whistler, did an American version and then an Irish version, and Doyle was born.

OPTIMUS1998

Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Weasy:
I think it's probably one of those things Joss left not quite explained (like the Cheeseman) because he thought the crazy theories the fans came up with were great (and occasionally very funny)B]

i remember reading somewhere that the whole reason for the cheeseman's existence was to basically mess with us, the fans.

...May have been the loosing side, Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

WEASY

Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:59 PM

You're right, I'm sure Joss is quoted saying that in an SFX interview at somepoint... he definately said it didn't actually mean anything anyway.

I only just got season one Angel, and most of my favourite episodes are the Glenn Quinn ones... but it feels really sad watching them, especially Hero. He's great though, I think I'd still rather have had him than Whistler - but yeah... a little Whistler would be nice.
It always annoyed me generally that nobody on either show would mention anything to do with the other show.
Especially in say, Spin the Bottle, the episode in which I spent the entire time going - why isn't Cordelia blaming this on Buffy? 'cos that's what she would actually have done if she reverted to her seventeen year old self...
Or when Angelus was released why did it take them like five episodes and countless dead people to just call Willow?
Okay. I'm just complaining now. There were some very good post-split episodes, I just wish 'Buffy' had become a dirty word.

AMYEL

Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:01 PM

When Buffy moved over to UPN before its 6th season, the WB was PISSED. They told the Angel production team to try not to mention the name "Buffy" or anything else that has to do with her, and of course more crossover episodes were completely verboten. Though once it was announced that Buffy was in its final season, the WB finally let up and allowed the Faith/Willow/Angel crossovers at the very end.

WEASY

Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:47 PM

Huh! I didn't think the WB were quite that evil...
actually, I was going to say but didn't for some reason in my last post that in some ways it worked quite well that no one on Angel mentioned Buffy because... well, gia wrote a really good fic where it was all part of Cordelia being evil (and changing her appearance dramatically to look like Buffy - hmm subtle) that she wouldn't let anyone talk about Buffy incase Angel realised what was going on...
I still quite like that theory.
But that was no excuse for everyone on Buffy to stop talking about Angel & co!

IDEFIX

Friday, January 14, 2005 12:57 PM

I think I read somewhere that it was NOT the WB but rather UPN that didn't approve of the crossovers once the two shows where on seperate networks. they didn't want their new (and rescued by them) show to keep telling the people to switch over to the WB for Angel.

and I think it's understandable either way. sad but understandable. it would have worked much better if they had been on the same network all the time.
but better two more years of Buffy without much crossovers than no more Buffy at all. I really enjoyed the last two seasons of Buffy, even if no one mentioned Angel and co any more.

Idefix

AMYEL

Friday, January 14, 2005 3:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
I think I read somewhere that it was NOT the WB but rather UPN that didn't approve of the crossovers once the two shows where on seperate networks. they didn't want their new (and rescued by them) show to keep telling the people to switch over to the WB for Angel.

I'm sure the UPN did that, but it's true about the WB as well. On the Angel season 3 DVD set, there's an interview with David Greenwalt and he said that the WB told them to stay away from Buffy as much as possible. They had to reason with the network, because Buffy had just died, and there's no way they couldn't at least mention it. Once the gang found out that Buffy was alive again, they had to move away from the whole subject of her after that.

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