Is it such a bad thing?
POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Thursday, February 3, 2005 19:40
VIEWED: 22097
PAGE 6 of 9
Zeek wrote:
Quote:
...If a culture decides that gential mutilation is where it's at then that's for them to decide.
Did you proofread that statement? Your internal editor decided to go with that story?! Please tell me you're just trolling, here.
But let's assume you're not, that you're dead serious.
In which case, why stop at cultures that say mutilating a specific group of people is okay? Why not say, "Each Individual has the right to mutilate their own children and wives, and no societal authority -- either external or internal -- has the right to intervene." Of course when I say "Individual", I mean 'Male'. I'm just trying to cloak it in ambiguities, to avoid upsetting the gentlefolk (meaning: 'those whom we seek to subjugate'). But you know what I meant, right? You didn't really even have to consider that I might have been saying, 'person of either sex'; 'male' was assumed.
So, if I feel it's necessary, I should be able to put the clamps on my chattel... er, family... to save them from themselves. And really, it doesn't matter what culture or society I live in. I'm an Individual, and if you don't like the way I live, you should keep your nose where it belongs. Countries, cultures or individuals: it's all the same.
Now, let's say I don't believe in actually taking a knife to my womenfolk, nor bind their feet in tiny little shoes to keep them properly petite (cutely reminiscent of a hog's trotter, btw), nor force them to wear boned corsets drawn with a hand crank 'til they can scarcely breathe (in order to present a proper 13" waistline), nor even ankle-length, long-sleeved, high-necked dresses. I am an American, after all, and a civilized Individual. Still, we know women are not good at analyzing things or being circumspect with finances. As a consequence, when my wife thinks she needs money for something, she must come to me to get it. I then analyze her desired purchase and determine whether or not it's financially sound policy to grant her wish.
Yada-yada, 'I check out my daughter's dates to see if they are appropriate for her'... *cough*bullshit!*sniffle*... 'I take a firm hand with my son, so that he gets a sensible education, rather than just doing things that interest him with no potential for earnings'... Ah-choo!*eatme*... 'My daughter doesn't really need an education; we send her to college to meet potential marriage partners'...
Yes, we in the West are clearly morally superior to all other cultures, regarding Individual freedoms.
But here's the thing: It's wrong. Just because everyone's doing it, in one form or another, all over the world, doesn't make it right. If an Individual -- or an entire culture -- mutilates or in any other way subjugates any portion of its populace based on sex, color, age or creed, it's (say it with me) W-R-O-N-G.
The problem appears to be, these days, that people are just too lily-livered to say it out loud... Never know who you might offend. Well, I say the Emperor is naked, and if any of the above footwear fits you: Wear it.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
Ummm, by the bye: I musta missed the news flash wherein we reportedly invaded a sovereign African nation to save the clitorises and vaginae. And that's the kind of story that normally pricks my ears up, too, on the CNN Headline News-muzak display... Somebody got a link for the invasion?
P.P.S.
I'm sure glad I'm a male, er, individual. Every time I fantasize about a female-dominated society, gone to the lengths our male-dominated one has, I picture men wearing fashionably revealing trousers, facial makeup on depilated faces, and going shirtless a lot (although the female Individuals might insist we wear something over our nipples, for our own protection, of course).
_________________________________________________
"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity
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Quote:
Originally posted by Willowy:
.
Read up
I find this hiliarious, read up read up you say read up on what?, those propaganda articles on buffy.nu, moronic posts by 14 year olds who say that buffy is their favourite show, even more favourite then one tree hill or the oc.
read UP READ UP, are you trying to say you should base your opinion on something based on whats written about it on a website. Let me tell you something anything wriiten by anyone is just their personal opinion nothing more. you have a opinion too you know i sugest you use it.
I am in tears after reading that, i had to skip all the way to the bottom of the page to reply so i don't know what zoids talking about, but i'm sure its brilliant.
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
P.P.S.
... Every time I fantasize about a female-dominated society, gone to the lengths our male-dominated one has, I picture men wearing fashionably revealing trousers, facial makeup on depilated faces, and going shirtless a lot (although the female Individuals might insist we wear something over our nipples, for our own protection, of course).
Sounds like an episode from season 2...
That guy, working electric, he never drank with us!
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Are you drunk?
I'm talking about books. You know, those things with paper pages? The printed word.
Essayists and reviewers and authors of great stature and reputation have published countless tomes in praise of BtVS and Angel. Some of the best being "Bite Me" by Nikki Stafford, "Slayer", by Keith Topping, and "Seven Seasons of Buffy", a book of essays edited by Glenn Yeffeth.
There have also been college courses on BtVS, and philosophical think tanks discussing Buffy's impact on popular culture.
That's just scratching the surface. Do your own research if you want to know more.
If you think that BtVS is just for '14 year old fangirls' then you don't know anything at all. Buy or rent seasons 1 AND 2, watch them, then come back when you have something to say. I guarantee your tone will have changed.
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Zed:
Okay, so I've been giggling a lot over stuff I've found on various sites, not all related, so my saying your post made me choke on my Pepsi may not be that big a deal. 
However, the frequency of my laughter, accompanied by nothing but keystrokes, is beginnig to alarm my family and cats.
I may have to stop the Norco, just so I can get through something like your post without inhaling a carbonated beverage up my nose.
Thanks in advance for taking my state of mind into consideration,
Ree.....
Um, yeah. Sorry. Did I say that out loud?
Quote:
Now, let's say I don't believe in actually taking a knife to my womenfolk, nor bind their feet in tiny little shoes to keep them properly petite (cutely reminiscent of a hog's trotter, btw), nor force them to wear boned corsets drawn with a hand crank 'til they can scarcely breathe (in order to present a proper 13" waistline), nor even ankle-length, long-sleeved, high-necked dresses.
As counter-examples, my son has discovered body piercing. I saw one of those HBO shows, Real Sex, wherein an adult (American) female bound her feet - Chinese Style (as opposed to Idle Hands Style) - for self-titillation. And until you've seen ballet boots, the words "self torture" have no meaning. I used to wear a corset to my favourite Goth Clubs, until I noticed everybody (male, female, whatever) was wearing them. So passe (and I'd add the accent acute, but I skipped that part of my HTML self-teaching, besides which I don't think it'd work here. Would it?).
Quote:
But here's the thing: It's wrong. Just because everyone's doing it, in one form or another, all over the world, doesn't make it right. If an Individual -- or an entire culture -- mutilates or in any other way subjugates any portion of its populace based on sex, color, age or creed, it's (say it with me) W-R-O-N-G.
But it's such a hard leap to make: hurting people = wrong. I mean, geez....
Quote:
The problem appears to be, these days, that people are just too lily-livered to say it out loud... Never know who you might offend. Well, I say the Emperor is naked, and if any of the above footwear fits you: Wear it.
I really only want to wear footwear that consists of thigh-high purple velvet boots (when I find/make/steal or conjure them), with a flat heel because I have no sense of balance.
Offending people is sometimes the only thing that works. It gets attention (and I'm not talking about the personal attention I missed from my mother, high school class mates and several men I've dated, although that's good too, but attention on the problem), and has the added bonus of venting steam. I have a theory that most people who believe in the whole non-interference with/whole acceptance of other "cultures" thing (no matter what that culture does to the people who live with it), or any other bald-faced silliness, aren't really going to change their minds, anyway, no matter how reasoned, calm, or persuasive anyone is. I realize this is mostly just my excuse to, well, rant every once in a while, but there ya go.
Quote:
P.S.
Ummm, by the bye: I musta missed the news flash wherein we reportedly invaded a sovereign African nation to save the clitorises and vaginae. And that's the kind of story that normally pricks my ears up, too, on the CNN Headline News-muzak display... Somebody got a link for the invasion?
www.itwillneverhappen.tu
....Anybody else feeling like the posting/cgi box is too small? I'm starting to feel claustrophobic, writing all these long, long, loooonnnggg, posts, all cramped up here in this wee thing. I need space to roam, man....Um...yeah....
"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Willowy:
I'm talking about books. You know, those things with paper pages? The printed word.
Essayists and reviewers and authors of great stature and reputation have published countless tomes in praise of BtVS and Angel. There have also been college courses on BtVS, and philosophical think tanks discussing Buffy's impact on popular culture.
.
lol
Let me tell you something all those BOOKS that you read. They are only one persons personal opinion, theres no definite opinion to have on Buffy. The only thing that is important is what you pesonaly think of it, nothing else.
Oh and please stop acting like your intelligent because you read books, i don't care how many books you have read you won't get my respect untill you write your own book.
But i know that will never happen as your nothing more then a sheep who needs other people to tell you what to think.
ps. zoid get off my back i don't like you any more and have taken you off my chrismas card mailing list.
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FireflyFan23:
Quote:
Let me tell you something all those BOOKS that you read. They are only one persons personal opinion, theres no definite opinion to have on Buffy. The only thing that is important is what you pesonaly think of it, nothing else.
*Ahem* In reality, the books, essays, think tanks, committees, workshops, and more have been done on the subject, and I'm sure more will be done on the subject. http://www.slayage.tv/pages/Slayage/slayagearchive.htm
These opinions you find so personal have actually reached a consensus as to the worth and worthiness of BtVS, Angel, and Firefly. So, not so much personal opinions anymore.
Of course, there is no definitive opinion on BtVS, Angel, or Firefly, except that most critics believe Joss Whedon &c. have provided watchable, worthwhile, television over a good many years. Some philosophers, ethicists, educators, pundits, and followers of popular culture have based quite interesting little philosophical sub-genres on these productions.
I personally find it all a bit much, because I think reading that deeply into popular entertainment is kinda silly. That's just my opinion, and, unlike those I mentioned above, I don't make any money off it. Yet.
"There is no grace under pressure for a cat on fire." Cosi
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If I needed other people to tell me what to think, I wouldn't be a Whedon fan.
People who enjoy BtVS and Joss' two other shows are usually thoughtful, insightful people. You could take a page or two from THAT type of book.
Thank you Reequeen for your addition to what I was trying to get across to this moron in as few words as possible. He wouldn't last 5 minutes at Whedonesque.
Where's Keith T. when you need him? 
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It's wierd, because I never liked early Buffy or Angel, and only really started to like either show in the later seasons as things got 'heavier' and 'preachier'. Must mean I'm a heretic, I guess ;)
I also think that Firefly would have benefitted greatly from another 2-3 year run at least before any worry of a slide would have crept in.
In an ironic twist, I, too, never knew Joss was behind Firefly, not until I was hooked. That's a good thing, because had I know the person behind Buffy and Angel (which I only started sort of watching after Firefly) had been behind Our Great Series, I most likely would not have watched, thinking, based on Joss' other work, that it would be far too campy. Thank God for wonderful ignorance ;)
If you can survive death, you can probably survive almost anything.
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Willowy:
I wouldn't worry too much about fireflyfan23. I get the sneaking suspicion that he's got multiple personalities on this board, and all of them got an F in the 'works and plays well with others' section of their report card. ff23 wrote:
Quote:(Emphasis on 'sheep' mine)
...But i know that will never happen as your nothing more then a sheep who needs other people to tell you what to think...
The use of the term 'sheep' to denigrate others has been done here before. I think it's too close to AngusThermopyle's use of the same term to be strictly coincidental. Read thread 'Sheep, baaaaaaah, baaah bah!' which has now been moved to Troll Country, and see if you see the same similarities I do. So until proven otherwise, I'm just gonna assume that fireflyfan23, AngusThermopyle and MyNameisJonas (earlier troll who got his ears pinned back) are one and the same person.
It should be noted that the personalities are too similar to be considered 'split'; it's one guy, socially maladjusted, but in an ultimately harmless way, with (at least) three different user names on this board.
So, I wouldn't worry about him. Ignore the sh*t out of him, is what I'd advise; especially since his arguments mostly consist of negation of your position. (Scene from Monty Python: "This isn't an argument." "Yes, it is!" "No it isn't; it's only contradiction." "No it's not!" et cetera.)
Some people are misfits because they don't want to fit in. Personally, I think it's an inferiority complex: They can't get past the feeling that they're not good enough to associate with 'normal people' (even though every person is 'good enough', just as they are). So they preemptively treat others with the disdain they fear they would be treated with, should the others ever see the 'real' them. "Normal people are sheep" really means "They have companionship I cannot have". Misfits of this type need to just relax and be themselves, warts and all. As long as they don't alienate others (out of fear of being rejected themselves), and learn to trust that most human beings enjoy associating with one another, they'll find that their fellow humans are actually broadly accepting of other viewpoints.
But you've gotta rely on the kindness of strangers, and it's tough to overcome that entrenched paranoia...
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
Please note the entry 'former painful introvert' on my Profile page. I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt...
_________________________________________________
"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity
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