Is it such a bad thing?

POSTED BY: AngusThermopyle
UPDATED: Thursday, February 3, 2005 19:40
VIEWED: 22097
PAGE 2 of 9

Quote:

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Originally posted by AngusThermopyle:
I haven't seen the final series of Angel yet - the previous have been excellent, especially 2 - but friends who have said they were disappointed. I'm waiting for my girlfriend to get the DVDs when they come out next month (region 2).

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In my opinion, seasons 1 to 3 are great, 4 is the letdown, and 5 is something of a last resurgence before the lights go out :) Even if you end up not liking the majority of it, there are still a few essential episodes that need to be seen.

And I agree about the slide of Buffy, perhaps not so much to do with 'feminist propaganda' but just a lack of real direction or subtlety.

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Actually I think you make a very good point. Buffy and even Angel to some extent took a nose dive as the series continued on. This is to be expected with any series really. There's only so far a group of characters can go before the stories become forced. Maybe the same would be true with Firefly.

Though even with a pretty good nose dive Firefly would still be one of if not the best show on tv today.

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To the over-protective Joss fans: lighten up! :smiles: Since when has FFF.net required every poster to blindly preach the Gospel of Whedon? Joss is a big boy and doesn't need you to jump all over anyone who offers a constructive (if strongly-worded) criticism. I'm sure even Jossage himself would admit that not everything he touches turns to gold. Dissenting opinions, where they're not simply the work of trolls, are natural and useful. This forum would be very dull if no-one ever challenged us...


To AngusThermopyle: I agree with you on Buffy - I loathed season 6 so much I couldn't even bring myself to watch 7. Not so much because of 'feminist propaganda', however - unless by that you mean its shamefully sidelining of all the male characters bar Spike (who himself only got screentime when he lost his shirt, it seemed). More the humourless dirge part.

*ducks flames*

Couldn't say re. Angel - have only seen 1-3 thus far, and adored it for the most part.


All that said/written, it seems to me that being grateful Firefly got canned just in case its quality dipped is unfounded pessimism at its silliest. (So I'm going to counter it with a desperately silly analogy...) It's a bit like being glad you've had your legs amputated, because at least now you can't cross any roads and perhaps get hit by a car. More seriously, wouldn't you have liked to see what happened, rather than second-guessing the show's development based on what has gone before?


BTW... good choice of name, particularly given your apparent propensity for stirring.


/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

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Quote:

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Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
I love Buffy. But youve got a good point.
I mean what if Joss had chosen to blow up Serenity at the end of Season 3?

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What, just after Mal's son had been killed by those Klingon bastards?



"I threw up on your bed"

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AngusThermopyle wrote:

Quote:

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I really do love the show, and would love to see more; however, the question is valid. Discussion forum, you see?

How sad is it when people answer messageboards using the vernacular of a TV show? Would've swore at you in Mandarin, but I don't speak it, unfortunately.

---

Okay. I'm gonna take things a little further, and then hopefully draw them back in again, into a tidy little bundle.

I watched a couple of single episodes of BtVS and Angel. I never liked them. SMG gives me a rash, as does James Marsters. My teenage daughter loves these shows, which is how I wound up watching them at all. They never appealed to me. Maybe it's something to do with the prosthetics or all the farcical machinations with daylight and stakes, and evil characters becoming the good guys, etc.

When Firefly first hit the small screen on Friday nights at 7 PM in my locality, I thought, 'Cool. Something to watch before Farscape', which frankly had lost its appeal when Zhaan left. Virgina Hey was the only reason I originally watched that series, due to a lasting crush on her since "The Road Warrior". Farscape started getting wackier and she left, and I lost a lot of my interest in the show, which I had come to fully enjoy.

Then I catch the first episode of Firefly and, bam! I am hooked. And I'll be honest, I gave the show a look because of Morena Baccarin. But by the end of the first episode I was hooked because of the dialog and Wash and Zoe's relationship. It was and continues to be one of the best TV depictions ever of the give-and-take of married life. On top of that, my wife's name is Kayley. I didn't stand a chance...

I watched every episode, taking care to check my listings, so I wouldn't miss an episode due to displacement by MLB playoffs. When F*x showed the 2-hour episode, I was in hog heaven. This show was so great, and the '2-hour event' only proved it, and F*x's dedication to the show. Yippee!

Next week, there was no episode, and none the week after; but, it was NFL playoff season by then, and I just figured F*x didn't have room for it right then: It'd be back.

As the weeks drug on into a month, I started going into withdrawal, and went to the 'Net looking to see what was up, when the next episode was going to air. That was when I found out F*x had cancelled it. I was literally devastated. Forlorn. How could a merciful God allow something of such beauty to be so callously taken from me? (Yeah, it was childish, but I couldn't help feeling betrayed.)

About three months after its cancellation, I started hanging out on alt.tv.firefly and talking to others who felt the same way. It was at that point that I learned Joss Whedon was the show's creator, and that he had created BtVS and Angel. I downloaded all the eps -- including ones never shown in the U.S. -- and if anything I felt worse, more angry.

Then somebody turned me on to FFFn and I've been here ever since. Like group therapy...

Would I have eventually soured on the show? Who can say? I frankly have never been keen on River being psychic. It smacks too much of Buffyverse to me. Especially since I think her 'insight' could be explained much more satisfyingly by conventional means. Remember "Rain Man"? Raymond takes one glance at the spilled matches and can tell you how many there are; he can remember all the cards that have been dealt at blackjack. Is he psychic? No. He just perceives the world differently than other humans. In one scene, it is explained that people think autism means being cut off from reality; but, it is further explained, in fact he senses more of the world's stimuli than we do, not less. When Simon diagnoses River's condition, he says something similar: She senses too much, "she can't not".

Apparently, it's set in stone. River's psychic. I don't like it but, hey, I've learned enough about Joss' talents to believe the storytelling will still be compelling.

Which brings me to my main point: I didn't like Joss' previous works; but I bel

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Zoid, you don't think you're better than EVERYone! Just the folks you're better than! Sheesh. Why do I gotta keep 'splainin' this?

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Quote:

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Originally posted by NicolaClarke:
To the over-protective Joss fans: lighten up! :smiles: Since when has FFF.net required every poster to blindly preach the Gospel of Whedon? Joss is a big boy and doesn't need you to jump all over anyone who offers a constructive (if strongly-worded) criticism. I'm sure even Jossage himself would admit that not everything he touches turns to gold. Dissenting opinions, where they're not simply the work of trolls, are natural and useful. This forum would be very dull if no-one ever challenged us...


To AngusThermopyle: I agree with you on Buffy - I loathed season 6 so much I couldn't even bring myself to watch 7. Not so much because of 'feminist propaganda', however - unless by that you mean its shamefully sidelining of all the male characters bar Spike (who himself only got screentime when he lost his shirt, it seemed). More the humourless dirge part.

*ducks flames*

Couldn't say re. Angel - have only seen 1-3 thus far, and adored it for the most part.


All that said/written, it seems to me that being grateful Firefly got canned just in case its quality dipped is unfounded pessimism at its silliest. (So I'm going to counter it with a desperately silly analogy...) It's a bit like being glad you've had your legs amputated, because at least now you can't cross any roads and perhaps get hit by a car. More seriously, wouldn't you have liked to see what happened, rather than second-guessing the show's development based on what has gone before?


BTW... good choice of name, particularly given your apparent propensity for stirring.


/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

---

Hi Nicola,

Firstly, thanks for your comments, which were interesting. I have to say that you were wise not to watch Buffy 7 as it far more annoying than 6. Series 7 was where the feminist line really kicked in bigtime. I won't say more than that as you may watch it someday and don't want to do a spoiler.

Secondly, on Firefly, I was asking a question, not making a statement. I'd love to see more. It's the best sci-fi show in years, and with crap like Enterprise about it really does come into sharp relief with it's excellent dialogue, great plots and humour.

I wouldn't have killed to see what happens lol, but I'd love to know what Book's background really is ("He aint no shepherd"), what happens with River and the Blue Sun Corp, I'd also like to see how Joss deals with the fine balance of Mal and Inara's relationship (which would be difficult to carry the momentum without becoming sadistic).

Thirdly, I didn't start this thread to stir, merely wondered what other people thought about it. Couldn't find out if I didn't ask.

May none of your pizzas have unfortunte toppings.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by zoid:
AngusThermopyle wrote:

Quote:

---

I really do love the show, and would love to see more; however, the question is valid. Discussion forum, you see?

How sad is it when people answer messageboards using the vernacular of a TV show? Would've swore at you in Mandarin, but I don't speak it, unfortunately.

---

Okay. I'm gonna take things a little further, and then hopefully draw them back in again, into a tidy little bundle.

I watched a couple of single episodes of BtVS and Angel. I never liked them. SMG gives me a rash, as does James Marsters. My teenage daughter loves these shows, which is how I wound up watching them at all. They never appealed to me. Maybe it's something to do with the prosthetics or all the farcical machinations with daylight and stakes, and evil characters becoming the good guys, etc.

When Firefly first hit the small screen on Friday nights at 7 PM in my locality, I thought, 'Cool. Something to watch before Farscape', which frankly had lost its appeal when Zhaan left. Virgina Hey was the only reason I originally watched that series, due to a lasting crush on her since "The Road Warrior". Farscape started getting wackier and she left, and I lost a lot of my interest in the show, which I had come to fully enjoy.

Then I catch the first episode of Firefly and, bam! I am hooked. And I'll be honest, I gave the show a look because of Morena Baccarin. But by the end of the first episode I was hooked because of the dialog and Wash and Zoe's relationship. It was and continues to be one of the best TV depictions ever of the give-and-take of married life. On top of that, my wife's name is Kayley. I didn't stand a chance...

I watched every episode, taking care to check my listings, so I wouldn't miss an episode due to displacement by MLB playoffs. When F*x showed the 2-hour episode, I was in hog heaven. This show was so great, and the '2-hour event' only proved it, and F*x's dedication to the show. Yippee!

Next week, there was no episode, and none the week after; but, it was NFL playoff season by then, and I just figured F*x didn't have room for it right then: It'd be back.

As the weeks drug on into a month, I started going into withdrawal, and went to the 'Net looking to see what was up, when the next episode was going to air. That was when I found out F*x had cancelled it. I was literally devastated. Forlorn. How could a merciful God allow something of such beauty to be so callously taken from me? (Yeah, it was childish, but I couldn't help feeling betrayed.)

About three months after its cancellation, I started hanging out on alt.tv.firefly and talking to others who felt the same way. It was at that point that I learned Joss Whedon was the show's creator, and that he had created BtVS and Angel. I downloaded all the eps -- including ones never shown in the U.S. -- and if anything I felt worse, more angry.

Then somebody turned me on to FFFn and I've been here ever since. Like group therapy...

Would I have eventually soured on the show? Who can say? I frankly have never been keen on River being psychic. It smacks too much of Buffyverse to me. Especially since I think her 'insight' could be explained much more satisfyingly by conventional means. Remember "Rain Man"? Raymond takes one glance at the spilled matches and can tell you how many there are; he can remember all the cards that have been dealt at blackjack. Is he psychic? No. He just perceives the world differently than other humans. In one scene, it is explained that people think autism means being cut off from reality; but, it is further explained, in fact he senses more of the world's stimuli than we do, not less. When Simon diagnoses River's condition, he says something similar: She senses too much, "she can't not".

Apparently, it's set in stone. River's psychic. I don't like it but, hey, I've learned enough about Joss' talents to believe the storytelling will still be compelling.

Which brings me to my main point: I didn'

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