The non-existent Trump economic miracle.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 16:38
VIEWED: 7832
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SIGNYM

Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:16 PM

Quote:
REAVERBOT:
Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-a
gree-medicare-for-all-saves-money

SIGNY: But that's not true. "every other country" does NOT have nationalized free healthcare.

Canada has single payer, where the government cuts out the insurers and pays (private) healthcare providers directly.

France's medical workers, OTOH, are a mixture of public (working for government) and private (paid by government). Public insurance is available to all, as is private insurance, but whether you choose public or private insurance, you MUST have insurance. It is mandatory.

Australia, too, has a mixture of public/private healthcare, paid for by government, but because public healthcare is more cost-effective the private entities are being swamped out.

In Britain, healthcare is funded by taxes, not insurance, and healthcare providers work directly for the government. That is the only truly "nationalized" healthcare system that I know of.

Germany has a system of what is called "Multipayer" system which includes both public and private insurers.

What seems like a simple statement of fact is not so simple after all.

REAVERBOT: You have it in Russia. Right, comrade?

You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:22 PM

Quote:
SIGNY:
Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

SECONDRATE: Signym, you might want to look closer at the economic miracle of WWII. That President's miracle was putting to work 16,112,566 Americans in the United States Armed Forces. Those Americans had active purposes and real goals to accomplish. In sharp contrast, Trump's miracle was to pay 30,000,000 Americans with no purpose other than waste time and do nothing until Covid-19 miraculously went away. To do more would have required government planning, but Trump doesn't know how to plan.
www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/cares-act-measures-strengthening-
unemployment-insurance-should-continue

It sounds like you want Trump to start a war.

Do you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.
That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.
Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

Many Presidents, starting with Nixon and all the way thru Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama worked MIGHTY HARD to help industry offshore manufacturing jobs and convert the USA into a "financialist" center.

How can a President, over the course of four years, reverse decades of economoc treason? Seriously, what would it take to bring even 100,000 manuacturing jobs back to the USA?

Well, you can start by imposing tariffs on incoming goods to make "made in America" more cost competitive, and you can repatriate overseas money to come home by making USA corporate taxes more in line with international ones (like Ireland) but unless you can FORCE a company to .... say ... use that money to build a steel plant or a chemical plant or a cotton mill or aluminum refiner ... they will take all that
extra" money and use it to buy back stock.

This isn't a case of Trump, or any President, or even Congress not having the authority to do that, it would be stepping into a whole new world of nationalization, where you would have state-owned (or at least government-financed or government-mandated) enterprises, like China and its SOEs.

I think this is the conundrum FDR faced, because infrastructural spending goes only so far to stimulate the economy. Once you've paved the roads and electrified rural America and built railways and giant dams.... unless you have a thriving PRODUCTIVE economy, the roads and railways will be empty and the electricity will be unused. But then, there was the war and all of the sudden the govenment needed millions of tons of steel and copper and cotton and butter, and the actual PRODUCTIVE economy came to life because the government ordered it so.

So a President and a willing Congress would have to invoke something like a war measures act ... hopefully without an actual shooting war ... to mandate a production restart. And BTW you should forget about the USA "competing' on the world stage, elbowing aside such cheap-labor environmental miscreants like China and India. USA goods will always be non-competitive against those nations if we want to have a decent stadard of living at home, so the best we can hope for is self reliance. Of course, transational capitalists would be unsatisfied with not making "maximal" profit (whch they can do overseas) so this is where the heavy hand of government comes in.

I don't see any way around nationaliation of major industries ... or at least direct government loans for production restart ... for that economic miracle to happen. If you can think of another way, let me know.

It might be better to say Relative Economic Miracle.
Some expectation levels of miracle are outlandinsh. But compared to 8 years of Obamanomics, Trumpanomics has been a relative miracle. And this was during the debris of Obamanomics, to boot.

The figures indicate that less tha half of the US population are "wage earners" according to SocSec data. And it shows that half of those "wage earners" are at the level of the $34K. But it also denotes that about 26% of th

SIGNYM

Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:16 PM

Quote:
SIGNY:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

KII: That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.

Well, you DID manage to get SECONDRATE to finally post something other than nonsense, so there's that. I was shocked to see him posting exactly what I've been posting all along: our economy over the decades/centuries has been molded by the rich, for the rich. But I'm more interested in what CAN be done, and what it would take to get there.

Quote:
SIGNY: Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

Many Presidents, starting with Nixon and all the way thru Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama worked MIGHTY HARD to help industry offshore manufacturing jobs and convert the USA into a "financialist" center.

How can a President, over the course of four years, reverse decades of economoc treason? Seriously, what would it take to bring even 100,000 manuacturing jobs back to the USA?

Well, you can start by imposing tariffs on incoming goods to make "made in America" more cost competitive, and you can repatriate overseas money to come home by making USA corporate taxes more in line with international ones (like Ireland) but unless you can FORCE a company to .... say ... use that money to build a steel plant or a chemical plant or a cotton mill or aluminum refiner ... they will take all that
extra" money and use it to buy back stock.

This isn't a case of Trump, or any President, or even Congress not having the authority to do that, it would be stepping into a whole new world of nationalization, where you would have state-owned (or at least government-financed or government-mandated) enterprises, like China and its SOEs.

I think this is the conundrum FDR faced, because infrastructural spending goes only so far to stimulate the economy. Once you've paved the roads and electrified rural America and built railways and giant dams.... unless you have a thriving PRODUCTIVE economy, the roads and railways will be empty and the electricity will be unused. But then, there was the war and all of the sudden the govenment needed millions of tons of steel and copper and cotton and butter, and the actual PRODUCTIVE economy came to life because the government ordered it so.

So a President and a willing Congress would have to invoke something like a war measures act ... hopefully without an actual shooting war ... to mandate a production restart. And BTW you should forget about the USA "competing' on the world stage, elbowing aside such cheap-labor environmental miscreants like China and India. USA goods will always be non-competitive against those nations if we want to have a decent stadard of living at home, so the best we can hope for is self reliance. Of course, transational capitalists would be unsatisfied with not making "maximal" profit (whch they can do overseas) so this is where the heavy hand of government comes in.

I don't see any way around nationaliation of major industries ... or at least direct government loans for production restart ... for that economic miracle to happen. If you can think of another way, let me know.

And of course REAVERBOT is such a dunderhead that he doesn't realize that AOC and I are almost on the same page as this. WHAT IS THE GREEN NEW DEAL EXCEPT THE GOVERNMENT-MANDATED AND GOVERNMENT-FUNDED RESTRUCTURING OF THE AMERI

1KIKI

Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:48 PM

average wage index = AWI (reported as median/ average/ mode(percent of total))
Thanks to the helpful chart I was also able to include the 'mode' measure of central tendency.

YR .. ....AWI mean/ .... median/ /........mode(percent)
2007 ....25,737.20/ .... 38,760.95/ .... 2,040.04(16.21)
2008 ....26,514.38/ .... 39,652.61/ .... 2,030.99(15.82)
2009 ....26,261.29/ .... 39,054.62/ .... 2,016.31(16.11)
2010 ....26,363.55/ .... 39,959.30/ .... 2,016.50(16.04)
2011 ....26,965.43/ .... 41,211.36/ .... 2,019.42(15.56)
2012 ....27,519.10/ .... 42,498.21/ .... 2,024.79(15.17)
2013 ....28,031.02/ .... 43,041.39/ .... 2,041.13(14.84)
2014 ....28,851.21/ .... 44,569.20/ .... 2,066.40(14.27)
2015 ....29,930.13/ .... 46,119.78/ .... 2,088.66(13.68)
2016 ....30,533.31/ .... 46,640.94/ .... 2,084.76(13.34)
2017 ....31,561.49/ .... 48,251.57/ .... 2,094.50(12.96)
2018 ....32,838.05/ .... 50,000.44/ .... 2,094.19(12.47)
2019 ....34,248.45/ .... 51,916.27/ .... 2,100.95(11.92)

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

I'm not even seeing a 'relative' economic miracle under Trump.

SECOND

Sunday, October 18, 2020 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIGNY:
Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

SECONDRATE: Signym, you might want to look closer at the economic miracle of WWII. That President's miracle was putting to work 16,112,566 Americans in the United States Armed Forces. Those Americans had active purposes and real goals to accomplish. In sharp contrast, Trump's miracle was to pay 30,000,000 Americans with no purpose other than waste time and do nothing until Covid-19 miraculously went away. To do more would have required government planning, but Trump doesn't know how to plan.
www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/cares-act-measures-strengthening-
unemployment-insurance-should-continue
It sounds like you want Trump to start a war.

Do you?

Trump could sign The HEROES Act, if he really believed he will win the election. What would Trump have to do to get that bill on his desk? www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6800/text

Trump would have to lobby 13 GOP Senators to vote for it. With 47 Democratic Senators already guaranteed to vote for it, it would become law. But Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell didn't bring the bill to a vote because he believes Trump will lose the 2020 election. In that case the HEROES Act would be helping President Biden, which is bad for the GOP. The best way for the GOP to win Congressional seats in the 2022 election is for the Senate to withhold money from President Biden to make sure he fails in his first two years.

Trump seems to agree with McConnell that he will lose the 2020 election. Therefore Trump is NOT lobbying GOP Senators to vote for the HEROES Act.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

REAVERFAN

Sunday, October 18, 2020 1:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.

You lost. If you had the maturity of an adult, you'd be able to admit that, but like your idol Trump, you're just a screaming man-child with no conscience or morals.

I don't imagine you make a lot as a paid Russian troll. Stupid, amoral, AND a broke-ass bitch.

SIGNYM

Sunday, October 18, 2020 2:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.

You lost. If you had the maturity of an adult, you'd be able to admit that, but like your idol Trump, you're just a screaming man-child with no conscience or morals.

I don't imagine you make a lot as a paid Russian troll. Stupid, amoral, AND a broke-ass bitch.

Yep, our resident lunatic is going ballistic.

So, how about AOC's plan to turn the USA into the USSA by nationalizing and regulating .. well... everything? Am I the only one to see the irony of supporting that plan?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

1KIKI

Sunday, October 18, 2020 2:37 AM

Yeah, I don't pay attention to him anymore, except to call him an idiot from time to time.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, October 20, 2020 4:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
average wage index = AWI (reported as median/ average/ mode(percent of total))
Thanks to the helpful chart I was also able to include the 'mode' measure of central tendency.

YR .. ....AWI mean/Increase .. median/ /........mode(percent)
2007 ....25,737.20/ ..000000.. 38,760.95/ .... 2,040.04(16.21)
2008 ....26,514.38/+0,777 .... 39,652.61/ .... 2,030.99(15.82)
2009 ....26,261.29/--0,247 .... 39,054.62/ .... 2,016.31(16.11)
2010 ....26,363.55/+0,102 .... 39,959.30/ .... 2,016.50(16.04)
2011 ....26,965.43/+0,602 .... 41,211.36/ .... 2,019.42(15.56)
2012 ....27,519.10/+0,554 .... 42,498.21/ .... 2,024.79(15.17)
2013 ....28,031.02/+0,512 .... 43,041.39/ .... 2,041.13(14.84)
2014 ....28,851.21/+0,820 .... 44,569.20/ .... 2,066.40(14.27)
2015 ....29,930.13/+1,079 .... 46,119.78/ .... 2,088.66(13.68)
2016 ....30,533.31/+0,603 .... 46,640.94/ .... 2,084.76(13.34)
2017 ....31,561.49/+1,028 .... 48,251.57/ .... 2,094.50(12.96)
2018 ....32,838.05/+1,277 .... 50,000.44/ .... 2,094.19(12.47)
2019 ....34,248.45/+1,410 .... 51,916.27/ .... 2,100.95(11.92)

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

I'm not even seeing a 'relative' economic miracle under Trump.

Does this improve your vision?
2019 was more than twice the averagte increase during Obamanomics.

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