Concerning Art/Work Theft from the Blue Sun Room

POSTED BY: Cassandrae
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 4, 2005 09:03
VIEWED: 10880
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11THHOUR

Friday, December 31, 2004 9:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
I noticed there is some of 11th's artwork over there and her sig has been removed from the drawings.

I wish I knew German!

Hey, I know a German!

(I'm sure I could get a choicely worded German e-mail written up for me, should I be so inclined... )

But seriously folks,

Actually, I would have felt left out if my art hadn't been used too...

Seeing my stuff used in the banner gave me a good larf. The snippet of my mock Firefly DVD billboard was really blurry... and from the angle of the art, it looks like it was cropped from the bigger "Marlboro Mal" image.

My other piece used was a section from my T-shirt design entry at the official Serenity site.

This particular type of art usage is not such a big deal to me. It's just a banner on a fan website that flashes small sections of the artwork. I posted the art for the enjoyment of fans, and that's how it's being used.

I would however, have a HUGE problem with anyone using my art to make money. That's a whole 'nother 'verse... and I'd be gettin' my opener, and a big can o' whoopass, for that there varmint...

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburn

GROUNDED

Friday, December 31, 2004 11:28 AM

Someone 'borrowed' something from my site without permission a long time ago. I emailed them. They apologised and took down the offending item. Easy.

Of course some people might not be so cooperative, but it's worth a shot.

PSYCHICRIVER

Friday, December 31, 2004 12:32 PM

Wow, thats sucks. I mean, it sounds like these people are fans, so I can't believe that they wouldnt show the respect to ask you first. It's a shame our show doesn't inspire greatness in all of us.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We can take care of each other. I'll knit!"

CHANNAIN

Monday, January 3, 2005 12:39 AM

Quote:
Posted by Lexiblock
Whine whine whine.
You cobble something together from what others have done and whine about "common courtesy" - shut up already.

Which part of Haken's request are you having the most trouble with? The Courteous or the insightful? Just curious. Can you say "troll" or maybe "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

Quote:
Zoid said
I think even JW would probably agree that derivative works like those on FFFn have prolonged and extended his vision -- not watered it down -- and increased the value of his fiction to the larger populace.

I agree, he probably would. He'd probably enjoy this entire conversation too.

Quote:
Zoid said
The crime occurs when unscrupulous types claim the 'applied artistry' is an original work of their own, with no credit to the author...I think your example of your pewter piece is not only a prime example of this concept of reworking art to your own tastes (analogous to having separate pics of BDMs, and wanting them to better serve your needs in the form of a collage), but a perfect example of art serving the end user, rather than the artist. Why does the artist create art? As a form of self-expression, yes, but ultimately as something to share with others, too. Those others should be able to amend it to suit their needs, keeping in mind that if they intend to republish it, they must credit the original creator. If they sell it, they should pay royalties.

So does this mean I should go back and credit the photographers or screen capturers for the portraits I did? Even though the pieces aren't digital? And where does public domain fall into all of this?

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/

ZOID

Monday, January 3, 2005 2:06 AM

Channain queried:

Quote:
... So does this mean I should go back and credit the photographers or screen capturers for the portraits I did? Even though the pieces aren't digital? And where does public domain fall into all of this?

Well, being neither an attorney nor a regular guest at Holiday Inn Express (TM), I'd have to say: It depends. When you say you did 'portraits', do you mean original drawings based upon photographs of famous public figures? If so, then that is what I would call 'pure art' as opposed to 'applied art'. Most portraitists have a subject pose; a photo is only a 'pose' in this application, unless the drawing is a tracery of the original photo.

The 'applied art' -- taking digital stock and reformatting it -- should credit its originator, as near as possible. Please note that Haken does this for this website as a whole:
"All FIREFLY related graphics and photos on this page are copyright 2002-2004 Mutant Enemy, Inc., Universal Pictures, and 20th Century Fox.
All other graphics and texts are copyright of the contributors to this website.
This website IS NOT affiliated with the Official Firefly Site, Mutant Enemy, Inc., or 20th Century Fox."

We should not do less than saying that the materials were borrowed. By the same token, the webmasters at the German site have borrowed our 'applied artworks' without leave, and without credit to the 'applied artist', implying that it is their own content, which it is not.

Note: The basis for my coined terms 'applied art' and 'pure art' comes from the concepts of 'applied science' versus 'pure science', and is supplied for purposes of analogy only. I daresay a copyright attorney would vehemently disagree...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Monday, January 3, 2005 2:17 AM

Just curious (as I only have so much time each day now) anyone seen anything I have done stolen from the site? Not that I'd be too upset, kinda flattered it was worth taking, but simply curious.

I am however, given to the nature that the internet is full of slime that is generally malicious, and usually subversive, and frankly would be afraid to leave the boiler rooms they sulk in because if most of the people on the internet today could find the hackers/slicers/scam artists/spammers out there, we'd drop them off a cliff somewhere.

As for the credit, I try and give credit (such as to 11th Hour, whom I ASKED before I posted altered work of hers) where credit is due, but I assume that anyone who comes to a FANSITE and sees FAN CREATED WORK using the show's images understands that CREDIT to the original creator(s), actor(s) and film/set crew(s) is inherent by the very nature of the site.

That's just me.

Everyone who has something stolen from them has a right to complain, and even moreso if they have no recourse but to accept the fact that they risk having their things stolen and the villans will get away with it. What bugs me is when people say you have no right to whine because you should expect it. No. I should expect people to adhere to a higher standard. Be civilized. Not be apes who take what they want and beat the snot out of those who can not stop them. The internet's greatest feature is also its greatest flaw: anonimity.

Those of us here know who did what, when and generally how and why. Others can "steal" it, but it won't change what we know to be true. If it bothers you, complain about it. If it bothers you someone is complaining, ignore it (it is not like you are FORCED to read it and reply...unless maybe you live in an opressive monarchy or something, in which case you have my sympathies), and certainly be as polite or MORE POLITE than the person you are bothered by when you post about it, if you do. Most of all, don't let any of it stop you from continuing to be creative and make wonderful things for your fellow fans. It won't stop me. ;)

Never want to be the LCD!
TCM

(LCD: Lowest Common Denominator in case you didn't get schoolin')

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TENTHCREWMEMBER

Monday, January 3, 2005 2:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cassandrae:
http://www.runner.ch/firefly/startseite.html

They even have images ripped from the Serenity Movie Board...even worse, they are from the T-Shirt contest.

(EDIT) Seems, at the very least though, the images are in a fan art section of the website, and do not seem to be altered in any fashion there.

Devils Advocate,
TCM

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CHANNAIN

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
When you say you did 'portraits', do you mean original drawings based upon photographs of famous public figures? If so, then that is what I would call 'pure art' as opposed to 'applied art'. Most portraitists have a subject pose; a photo is only a 'pose' in this application, unless the drawing is a tracery of the original photo.

Okay, that makes sense. Then yes, my work is pure art, since I work primarily in colored pencil. Occasionally I work in black and white graphite, but not so much anymore. I did a portrait for a client just recently of his two girls, but had to piece it together from several photos since siblings never do the same pose at the same time.

I'm meeting a lot of portrait and graphic artists myself who are finding live models problematic these days. Nobody has the patience to do it anymore, when they're so aware of photographic technology. And kids? Fuhgetaboutit.

When I use a public media photo, I try to use it simply as a basis for composition. For the Kaylee portrait "Shiny," I had to come up with the jacket pattern from scratch because there isn't a photo in the 'verse that showed the pattern clearly enough to copy. I got that out of a Chinese pattern book and applied the color scheme from the original fabric.

"It's enough" is a piece I wanted to do simply to capture the intensity in Mal's expression. In hindsight (and thanks to a great Color & Design class) I should have just kept to the base composition elements - eyes and facial features.

I sometimes have a hard time with "applied art" as you call it, but it depends on the technique. If the digital artist did something uniquely creative with the images, then it usually evokes a positive emotional response from me - Cassandrae's work is one of many excellent examples of that. But if someone just takes a static image and just puts a caption on it... is that still art?

Maybe I should be taking copyright law this quarter instead of intermediate drawing.

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/

ZOID

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 12:01 AM

Channain wrote:

Quote:
...But if someone just takes a static image and just puts a caption on it... is that still art?

Ideally, yes. The user (since ownership becomes the stickiest possible wicket, with the rise of the Internet) has modified a piece of art to their tastes. This is what I call applied art. It need not please anyone except the user. Whether the user learns to use a software tool in order to mask and extract elements of an image and paste them into a new composition, arranged just so, and then adjust chroma and apply filters... or just use MS Paint to scribble in "My gal, Inara"... the user is still making the art personal for themself. That is the beauty of digital art. Interactivity with the art beckons the user in a way that canvas never can. Everyone can be an artist, and still have the digital original intact; try that with the Mona Lisa.

Channy also wrote:

Quote:
Maybe I should be taking copyright law this quarter instead of intermediate drawing.

LMAO! The beauty of being a lawyer, as opposed to being an artist, is that you don't have to be dead to make money doing it.

If I had it all to do over again, I'd have been an agent rather than a musician. (Pssst! Not really. I have a soul.)

Respectfully,

zoid

HARDY

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 8:18 AM

hi CASSANDRA and all the others...

i would like to apologize for what i dit...
i'm realy sorry

you are right, it was wrong to think that you'll be happy when other fans could see and use your works...

i just cancelled the fan-art section of my website and also the banners that i used for the rotating title...
instead i postet a link to the blue-sun-room

but i want to try to explain

i build this side for the german speaking browncoats; yes i know there are not so many yet - but there
will be, when the show will finaly be aired in germany...

i'm happy about every visitor and i never wandet to make anybody angry, cause i built the site for the fans
and not against them.

to keep my visitors happy i'm allways searching the web for news and interessting things around firefly...
... and as you know www.fireflyfans.net is one of the best places to find these things...

so i found your fantastic fan-arts and thought, it should not be a problem to copy them to make my site
look better.

i know, you spent alot of time to creat these famous pics... i know that, cause i spent alot of time too
by building the website...

i hope, you accept my apology

(and sorry for my bad english...)

keep flying

hardy

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Mal: "Everybody dies alone"
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