Return of the King (dvd box set )

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 4, 2005 00:09
VIEWED: 5232
PAGE 2 of 2

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Monday, January 3, 2005 5:17 AM

I don't think they ever planned to have the scouring of the Shire in any version of the film. I believe it's one of the first things they cut when they were writing the scripts. PJ confirmed on the commentary of The Fellowship Of The Ring that the closest you'd get to seeing it would be the vision that Frodo has in the Mirror of Galadriel. That was their little nod to the scouring.

I really loved the additional stuff in The Return Of The King, as I have with the previous extended editions, but I was a bit disappointed that they left out my favorite part of the Mouth of Sauron confrontation.

Quote:
'Do not bandy words in your insolence with the Mouth of Sauron!' he cried. 'Surety you crave! Sauron gives none. If you sue for his clemency you must first do his bidding. These are his terms. Take them or leave them!'

'These we will take!' said Gandalf suddenly. He cast aside his cloak and a white light shone forth like a sword in that black place. Before his upraised hand the foul Messenger recoiled, and Gandalf coming seized and took from him the tokens: coat, cloak, and sword. 'These we will take in memory of our friend,' he cried. 'But as for your terms, we reject them utterly. Get you gone, for your embassy is over and death is near to you. We did not come here to waste words in treating with Sauron, faithless and accursed; still less with one of his slaves. Begone!'

I would love to hear Ian McKellen say that line. Or even give it to Viggo Mortensen if they were worried about not building up his kingly presence enough.

Oh well. Still three of the best movies ever.

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

STILLSHINY

Monday, January 3, 2005 3:25 PM

After watching the Special Features my wife & I came to this conclusion.

"I want to work for WETA!"

or at least go back in time & do so.

Check out my shop!
http://www.zazzle.com/contributors/products/gallery/browse_results.asp
?cid=238187680745956238

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN' SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." --Joss

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, January 3, 2005 5:10 PM

I agree with Corncobb. I really wanted to see the scouring of the shire... Instead, it was kind of a half-assed way to show what happens with Saruman and Grima. I wanted a little more accuracy with the novels in that respect. And lots of people seem to think the aragorn/arwen scenes were too few. I think they were far too many. Arwen took on the roles of four other people in the fellowship, and the visions of her child were completely fabricated. Where was Glorfindel. Shouldn't he have rode with Frodo after the battle on weathertop instead of arwen? Wasn't it the magic of Elronds ring that made the river wash away the wraiths, and wasn't it Gandalf who made the white horse effect in the rushing waves? Arwen got way more than her just due in this film.

CORNCOBB

Monday, January 3, 2005 5:31 PM

Does anyone here happen to know why the scouring of the shire was deliberately left out? Did PJ not like that chapter for some reason?

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

DIEGO

Monday, January 3, 2005 6:35 PM

I believe the scouring of the shire was left out for a couple of reasons.
1) The movies were going to be long enough. There are great parts from the book, like Tom Bombadil etc., that aren't necessary for the story-telling and if included as a homage would require a lot of time to put in. You'll notice that whenever possible he puts in little extraneous details from the book, but he tends to select shorter elements (like the gift giving by Galadriel). Introducing Bombadil or dealing with the Sharky and his boys in the Shire would take more story-telling time.

2) It's anticlimatic. It runs like this --> the ring is destroyed--> end of journey everyone goes home--> uh-oh the villain from the first two books is still around and there is a new situation to deal with--> kick butt-->denouement and final farewell. Jackson says he felt that the story was that of Frodo's journey. He felt that the farewells and the glimpse of how Frodo has changed and can't deal with "normal" life anymroe were important parts leading up to the final departure at the grey havens. But he thought the scouring was superfluous. I always thought that this part of the book felt a little long, but that it was important in showing how much the hobbits have grown (literally in two cases!). But I think Jackson was able to show their changes effectively in a more abbreviated form with the Green Dragon scene.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, January 3, 2005 8:29 PM

Of course, we know that Sharkey is/was Saruman. I don't think it would have been anti-climactic to show his true end. His power lay in his voice the whole time, so I thought it was important to show his real end... not the somewhat silly ending he had falling off his tower. I thought it was a very neccessary part of the books too. It shows that the hobbits had changed in extraordinary ways. Their leadership, their strength, their abilities are all tested in their homeland at the end. I personally think it was needed. Even though Merry and Pippin did great deeds during their fellowship, they still needed to prove their changed state once they returned back to the Shire.
Also, the scouring of the Shire is very much a part of the story. It shows that evil penetrated everywhere, due to people's desire for power. There really was no escaping the Ring's power and influence. By not showing the scouring, they left out the rest of the Hobbits finally gaining their courage. As it stands, when Frodo and company rolled back into town, they were looked at the same way as they were when they left. That's just plain wrong. All the Hobbits took courage from the fellowship hobbits, chased down and killed Orcs and became a united people. Merry and Pippin finally got some real fighting action, and at the end they were all recognized as the heroes which they were. Sam became mayor! I don't think the Green Dragon scene showed much of a change in the other hobbits attitudes toward the heroic hobbits. That is just plain wrong too.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

MONTANAGIRL

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
Does anyone here happen to know why the scouring of the shire was deliberately left out? Did PJ not like that chapter for some reason?

I can't remember where I heard (or read) it, but in some interview Peter Jackson said that he had never liked the scouring of the Shire and it was never going to be included in the movie. He threw in the bit in Galadriel's mirror for the people who wanted to see the scouring (even though what was shown wasn't the scouring???) sort of as appeasement.

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Monday, January 3, 2005 9:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
Of course, we know that Sharkey is/was Saruman. I don't think it would have been anti-climactic to show his true end. His power lay in his voice the whole time, so I thought it was important to show his real end... not the somewhat silly ending he had falling off his tower. I thought it was a very neccessary part of the books too. It shows that the hobbits had changed in extraordinary ways.

The real problem was one of time - PJ originally was trying to finance the film as two parts for the trilogy, so had to cut as much as he could; even when he got a film for each of the books (or one film per two books in reality), there was no way to have everything. The Scouring of the Shire could be cut and it would not effect the story of the movie as written. Same with Tom Bombadil and many of the parts cut.

If it were a mini-series, you could have had the Scouring, but as it stood, there was no way to end the film (which had something like 10 "endings" anyway) and re-start it for another twenty minutes.

"I threw up on your bed"

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Monday, January 3, 2005 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
As it stands, when Frodo and company rolled back into town, they were looked at the same way as they were when they left. That's just plain wrong. [...] Sam became mayor! I don't think the Green Dragon scene showed much of a change in the other hobbits attitudes toward the heroic hobbits. That is just plain wrong too.

Well, in the book, Frodo was never given much renown in the Shire, either. Few if any of the hobbits knew or cared how much he had sacrificed for them.

Quote:
From The Return Of The King, Chapter IX: The Grey Havens:
Frodo dropped quietly out of all doings of the Shire, and Sam was pained to notice how little honour he had in his own country. Few people knew or wanted to know about his deeds and adventures; their admiration and respect were given mostly to Mr. Meriadoc and Mr. Peregrin and (if Sam had known it) to himself.

And, in the film, Sam does become mayor (I gather you're upset because you think he was short-changed in this regard?). The information is not offered up through exposition, but you can see, partially obscured by his head, that Frodo has written "Samwise Gamgee was elected may- [...] Hobbiton." You can also tell by the cut of Sam's clothes that he's moven up a bit in society.

As for the scene in the Green Dragon, I think it's a perfect, shared moment. These friends have gone there and back again; they've seen war, and things the other hobbits wouldn't understand. It makes sense to me that they feel slightly apart from them when they return. War changes people.

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

MANIACNUMBERONE

Tuesday, January 4, 2005 12:09 AM

I guess what I meant was that the other three hobbits got very good attention after the scouring... true enough frodo faded away a bit... he still helped with the scouring though. We know that merry and pippin were instrumental in rising the hobbits of the shire to do anything. I just picture the grumpy old man who gave them a crusty look in the "fellowship" when they were first riding into town, (granted gandalf was with him), who gives the returnng hobbits the same look when they return. It bugs me. Sorry if I am coming off like I didn't love the movie to death, because it was my wet dream come true. I've talked about this movie being made from the books for twenty years. So when I say things like I do, know that's comes from a place of love for the books and not anything else.

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2