Concerning Art/Work Theft from the Blue Sun Room
POSTED BY: Cassandrae
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 4, 2005 09:03
VIEWED: 10880
PAGE 2 of 4
Huh. That sucks. I also noticed one of Hell's Kitten's works, too, the one image that has the whole cast lined up with a slight glow around them. I remembered it because I commented on it when I saw it in the Blue Sun Room.
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"My office! Burgled! Plundered! Purloined! Ha ha ha...loins."
-- Phil Sebben, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
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Channain responded thus:
Quote:
...Quote:
Zoid Said
On the other hand, I don't think it's necessarily theft if they credit you and add their own artistic expression to it. That way the consumer has the right to choose between your version and theirs, knowing that the two versions exist and that theirs is a derivation of yours.
Ummm... wait, let me get this straight. As long as the artist gets the credit for the original work, it's okay if a Web designer takes the artist's personally created vision and rearranges it for their own purposes?
Now if the designer made a full proposal first and I got approval of the final piece, that would be a different story - rather like when a publisher commissions artwork for book covers. Otherwise, without permission or approval.
I'm just sayin'. Some artists are more easy-going about it. A pewter artist looked at a pendant I had made a slight adjustment to - adding a small crystal to an accurate likeness of Vincent from Beauty and the Beast - and LOVED it. Someone else might holler and scream and make a spectacle of themselves.
Artists can be pretty gorram tetchy sometimes...
This isn't my idea. But, I was surfing 'copyleft' sites a while back and ran across this one: http://artlibre.org/licence.php/lalgb.html . It basically establishes (or attempts to) the right to practice what so many fanartists here at FFFn do. Take someone else's digital images (i.e., from the Internet) and modify them into a new piece of art. I like the idea, since it allows artists like Cassandra E to express themselves without having access to the subjects of her art, the actors of Firefly in this case.
But if the shoe fits our foot, it must fit the feet of others as well. Obviously, this is intended for the visual arts, but it may be logically extended to the written word as well. In this way, fanfics -- original works derived from someone else's stories, characters and settings -- can become legitimate expressions. Of course, the original work must be properly credited.
I think even JW would probably agree that derivative works like those on FFFn have prolonged and extended his vision -- not watered it down -- and increased the value of his fiction to the larger populace. The crime occurs when unscrupulous types claim the 'applied artistry' is an original work of their own, with no credit to the author...
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
I think your example of your pewter piece is not only a prime example of this concept of reworking art to your own tastes (analogous to having separate pics of BDMs, and wanting them to better serve your needs in the form of a collage), but a perfect example of art serving the end user, rather than the artist. Why does the artist create art? As a form of self-expression, yes, but ultimately as something to share with others, too. Those others should be able to amend it to suit their needs, keeping in mind that if they intend to republish it, they must credit the original creator. If they sell it, they should pay royalties.
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"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity
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Whine whine whine.
You cobble something together from what others have done and whine about "common courtesy" - shut up already. -
You put it on the net, people are going to spread it. You don't want that, then don't do it. Nobody owes you anything.
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LexiBlock wrote:
Quote:
Whine whine whine.
You cobble something together from what others have done and whine about "common courtesy" - shut up already. -
You put it on the net, people are going to spread it. You don't want that, then don't do it. Nobody owes you anything.
Good point. Wear a big hat, maybe nobody will notice...
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Quote:
Originally posted by wydraz:
I learned this lesson a long time ago. So I've decided that any artwork I post to the web is for the world to do with as it may. Stuff I don't want "borrowed" I simply don't post. It's a tough decision, but that is the way of the world (wide web).
One technique I use is to post stuff that is of a lesser resolution than the original that I own. So if it ever comes down to who owns the piece, I can always pull out the original to help prove it. It's a small and relatively useless measure, but it lets me sleep at night.
I gotta say though, I like the lesser resolution idea, I just might take to it.
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MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript
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Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
Whine whine whine.
You cobble something together from what others have done and whine about "common courtesy" - shut up already. -
You put it on the net, people are going to spread it. You don't want that, then don't do it. Nobody owes you anything.
I can whine, whine, whine, whenever the hell it strikes me. And common courtesy, obviously not so common. Seeing how its lacking in yourself. Or maybe I was brought up differently. Better yet, maybe you should take your own advice and ~shut up as well~ And for your information, I greatly respect that something others have done, if I wasn't I would be so inclined to take credit for it, and maybe make a profit or two.
But that's not the case.
I'm not as ignorant in the matter, that "Geez I don't expect people to take things." I seen it happen before, numerous times-- it still doesn't make it right.
Your kind of thinking, while realistic, also helps enable the same behavior that the individuals from this website are doing. And not just my work, emphasis on work, and not Firefly, but other talented individuals as well.
And I want to do it, I love my show and my craft. One day, I'll be making my own, and if someone takes my work, chops it up with no by or leave, I can whine and raise a stink if I want too. It's my right.
If you don't want to hear it, then don't read it. Frankly, I thought it was something to be brought up, since these were the same people who were hotlinking to this site a while back.
Cassie E
~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript
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Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
Whine whine whine.
You cobble something together from what others have done and whine about "common courtesy" - shut up already. -
You put it on the net, people are going to spread it. You don't want that, then don't do it. Nobody owes you anything.
No, nobody owes anyone anything, it's just that some of us were raised with better manners than to take someone else's work and not give them credit for it.
If you bothered to check out Cassandra E's site you would see that she does credit her sources.
So she is only asking for the same respect that she shows to others and alerting the other people that post their work in the Blue Sun Room to what is going on.
If you wish to view that as "whining" go right ahead, just be prepared if some of us disagree with you.
The Old Broad Monkey
http://lurid-eidolon.org/fireflyawards/index.php
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sorry, double post.
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Cassandrae:
I once had an entire website ripped off and represented at another's site as their own work. Mine was called "ATC Library" and had over 16MB of primarily text and hand-optimized graphics. It took me the better part of 6 months just to convert documents (in 1994, when the Web was still wet behind the ears). These a$$holes bypassed my frameset navigation and framed my content pages on their own site, without so much as a 'kiss my ass' said beforehand.
So, I created a new directory on the server, and moved the whole site down a level into that directory. Then I went to their site and checked for my pages: All gone bye-bye. Since all my links were relative, all my nav still worked. I kept checking on their site for a couple of weeks; but they seemed to be having a problem with their navigation interface, since they were having to use full URLs for over 3,000 entries. They eventually gave up and pulled my stuff from their site.
Theft is just plain wrong. It doesn't matter, IMO, that the materials you used were not original productions. You added value to those images, and they took that value without permission by or compensation to you.
On the other hand, I don't think it's necessarily theft if they credit you and add their own artistic expression to it. That way the consumer has the right to choose between your version and theirs, knowing that the two versions exist and that theirs is a derivation of yours. For example, if my a$$holes had taken my text (crediting my site) and reworked the HTML, re-styled the design, something, anything, and then stored it on their own site's server, I'd've said, "Fair enough. Let the users decide which format fits them best." Instead, they took undeserved credit for my effort, all the while stealing my server's bandwidth.
I guess my point is that I can sympathize, and you're not wrong for feeling this way. You wuz robbed...
Commiseratingly,
zoid
P.S.
With Dreamweaver, for example, the thieves could now automatically rename all their absolute URLs in less than 10 minutes and successfully rip me off, which is no small part of why I don't dabble in web design anymore. With a high-speed connection and over-the-counter tools, a miscreant could probably rip the whole FFFn site in less than 3 hours, even if it's got a really complex structure. Then they could post whatever pieces and parts -- or everything in it -- on the Net, as their own original work. But I'm not going to let the possibility of thievery stop me from expressing myself here.
I hope you will reconsider your decision to stop expressing yourself here, too. We want to see, what you have to say...
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"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity
Zoid,
First off, I can't believe someone would just completely take your web design. Or even begin to state the reasons of how wrong that was. Some people these days don't have any respect whatsoever. And I'm speaking as beginning website coder myself. I've been learning the stuff from scratch, it's bloody hard work.
And I want to thank you for your support, and thus pointing out that I'm not completely wrong in what I was saying. I wouldn't have made such a big deal out of it, if wasn't that they stole so much from the BSunroom. And no credit given, at all.
I might rethink my not posting here with some changes in how I handle my work. Maybe the lesser resolution or limited posting of art is the way to go.
Again, thank you for your great insights and words. You say things so much better than I ever could.
Kind Regards,
Cassie E
~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript
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I want to add an Update on the situtation. Basically these folks have a gallery of art work, done by many artists here. A lot is recent stuff. I just checked now. It's hard to find, but it's under the galleries, in fan art.
Edit: I know many might not mind, but I know some may do. So if any posted in the Blue Sun Room, I would suggest checking it out if some of your work is there. And I retrack my statement in that they're cropping the images, it's just an image rotation thing.
But still, I mind in the just taking of things. And not a big deal to some, it just leads to more taking and using pther types of work in a different manner in another situation.
Cassie E
~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript
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