new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 5, 2026 22:21
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SIGNYM

Monday, April 6, 2020 6:32 AM

KIKI, I wanted to get your feedback on this

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So since the SARS Cov-2 virus docks onto human cells via the ACE-2 receptor (typically found in the small vessels of the lungs but also the kidneys, which explains the kidney damage that is ALSO found after Covid-19) I wondered whether the ACE receptor blockers (ARBs) would interfere with docking and blunt the infection. But it turns out that ARBs actually cause an overexpression of ACE-2 recpetors (by a factor of 3-5X) which may explain why people with high blood pressure or heart problems far so poorly: Not because of the blood pressure or heart failure but because of the medications they're taking. THAT might explain the high death rate in Italy.

I guess I wasn't the first person to think about this, there is an active discussion about this in the medical community. https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/ace-inhibitors-arbs-and-covi
d-19-what-gps-need-to

On the other hand, a comment buzzed past my ear while I was doing other things that soking prevented the kind of cytokine storm that quickly sent patients CTD (circling the drain). Since it was kind of random, I don't recall where I heard it, but what I found when looking it up is that according to the only studies that could be found on the topic, smoing actually RAISES the risk of severe complications and deaths. http://www.tobaccoinduceddiseases.org/COVID-19-and-smoking-A-systemati
c-review-of-the-evidence,119324,0,2.html So much for THAT idea (although I will continue to try and find the source of that comment, and any supporting info.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

SIGNYM

Monday, April 6, 2020 6:34 AM

Quote:
SIX: And as I've stated before, it's not just people who were going to die this year, but people who would have died in the next couple of years from one of those illnesses anyhow.

SIX, we're ALL going to die of "something" anyhow.

SO why don't we just hurry the process along and just shove everyone over 60 into to gas chambers?

Yours is a stupid argument.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

1KIKI

Monday, April 6, 2020 6:50 AM

Quote:
What percentage of any of those categories are within the age range of those dying? You're throwing in everybody who has those illnesses, including all of them who are much younger and aren't likely to die even if they get the Coomf and they will recover from it.

Your numbers are dumb, and your comparisons are flawed.

And as I've stated before, it's not just people who were going to die this year, but people who would have died in the next couple of years from one of those illnesses anyhow.

There will be less deaths among old people with those illnesses over the next few years than expected before because, yes, they will die this year instead.

Facts of life, hun. Get over it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I agree with Signy.

In fact, why not abort every fetus ever conceived if it's just going to die anyway? Because - according to you - it's merely a matter of time, place, and cause; and those are meaningless details. According to you.

Yours is not only a really stupid argument, it's a morally bankrupt one.

1KIKI

Monday, April 6, 2020 7:16 AM

So, here's the interesting case of Germany's really low case fatality rate ... and it's not just about a lot of quickly-available testing, or a younger, healthier population.

Quote:

Germany has remarkably few COVID-19 deaths. Its healthcare system shows how Germany prevented a runaway death toll.

Here's how Germany turned itself around as one of the European countries with the highest number of COVID-19 cases to having one of the lowest mortality rates of COVID-19 worldwide.

† February: Germany has one of the highest infection rates in the world
But Germany sprung into action. By the time Trump made his comments (February 26, 2020), Germany was already taking action to address the coronavirus threat.

† Late February and early March: Germany's forceful and rapid response
In late February, the country extended school and daycare facility closures and required anyone who had contact with confirmed cases to remain in isolation for 14 days. Even in unconfirmed cases — those who had been near someone with coronavirus-like symptoms — were told to self-isolate.
Meanwhile, the government said that it would limit outside travel into the country and begin acquiring protective medical equipment to prepare for the COVID-19 fight. Along the way, despite an inability to get rapid test results, Germany was ramping up its testing efforts.
Germany was one of the first countries to develop a testing system for COVID-19. It's early access to reliable tests for COVID-19 meant that Germany could "get a much better handle on who was infected, isolate contacts, and treat those who need care," Jennifer Kates, the senior vice president and global health and HIV policy director at the Kaiser Family Foundation said.

† March 9-10: The first deaths
German chancellor Angela Merkel and her administration told Germany that they would need to do "everything possible" to slow the coronavirus spread and save lives. She announced that gatherings of more than 1,000 people would be shut down. This was 7 days before Trump recommended social distancing measures in the US based on CDC guidelines.
But perhaps what has contributed to Germany's low death rate most is an ace up its sleeve that many other countries can't match: An extremely high bed-to-person ratio. According to data from HealthSystemTracker, Germany has 8.1 hospital beds per 1,000 people and 6.1 ICU beds per 1,000 people. Italy has 3.2 hospital beds per 1,000 and 2.6 ICU beds per 1,000. The US has 2.8 hospital beds per 1,000 and 2.4 ICU beds per 1,000 people.
"Germany hospital capacity surpasses that of many other countries," Kates said. It's been a key factor in saving lives and not overwhelming a strained healthcare system.

† March 17: A bigger risk — and problems testing
On March 17, the Robert Koch Institute, which monitors public health across the country, changed COVID-19's health risk to "high" in Germany.
The German government said that because of a lag of about three to four days between testing and results, it believed the real number of cases was higher than the recorded 7,000, or so. Germany quickly expanded the number of COVID-19 beds by 1,000 to accommodate extra needs.
In the ensuing days, more curfews and quarantines went into effect. Social distancing, a core component in any country's battle with COVID-19, was further tightened as schools, daycare facilities, and other gathering limitations were extended. At the right time, Germany responded forcefully, experts said.

† March 22: A widespread crackdown
By March 22, Germany's cases hovered at around 25,000, but deaths were just 86 — a fatality rate of approximately 0.3% that easily outpaced China, Italy, and nearly every other country around the world.
That day, the German government announced that people would need to remain six feet apart, and gatherings of more

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6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 6, 2020 7:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
What percentage of any of those categories are within the age range of those dying? You're throwing in everybody who has those illnesses, including all of them who are much younger and aren't likely to die even if they get the Coomf and they will recover from it.

Your numbers are dumb, and your comparisons are flawed.

And as I've stated before, it's not just people who were going to die this year, but people who would have died in the next couple of years from one of those illnesses anyhow.

There will be less deaths among old people with those illnesses over the next few years than expected before because, yes, they will die this year instead.

Facts of life, hun. Get over it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
I agree with Signy.

In fact, why not abort every fetus ever conceived if it's just going to die anyway? Because - according to you - it's merely a matter of time, place, and cause; and those are meaningless details. According to you.

Yours is not only a really stupid argument, it's a morally bankrupt one.

Boo Hoo. Cry me a river.

I noticed you're not even going to touch the property tax issue, are you?

Why don't you stick to Chemistry and Biology and leave taxes and statistics to people who know what they're doing. Numbers certainly are not in your wheelhouse.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, April 6, 2020 7:57 AM

I replied to your property tax 'issue'.

Please read it.

1KIKI

Monday, April 6, 2020 8:05 AM

To further address Jack's fallacious claim that people with diabetes are going to die in a couple of years anyway, I took a look at average lifespan of people with diabetes.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317477#life-expectancy-with-
type-2-diabetes

A 2010 report from the United Kingdom estimated that type 2 diabetes reduced life expectancy by *up to 10 years* ... A 2012 Canadian study calculated... that the disease caused an average reduction of 6 years in females and 5 years in males.

(So with) ... the average (US) life expectancy at birth for males (of) 76.4 years .... for females ... 81.2 years

...the average diabetic can expect to live to about 71.4 years for males, and about 75.4 years for females. Is a 40 year old diabetic at a 6-7% risk of dying from COVID-19 getting ready to die within the year? In another year? Or two? Or is it more like in 35-40 years?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 6, 2020 9:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I replied to your property tax 'issue'.

Please read it.

No.

You didn't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, April 6, 2020 9:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
To further address Jack's fallacious claim that people with diabetes are going to die in a couple of years anyway, I took a look at average lifespan of people with diabetes.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317477#life-expectancy-with-
type-2-diabetes

A 2010 report from the United Kingdom estimated that type 2 diabetes reduced life expectancy by *up to 10 years* ... A 2012 Canadian study calculated... that the disease caused an average reduction of 6 years in females and 5 years in males.

(So with) ... the average (US) life expectancy at birth for males (of) 76.4 years .... for females ... 81.2 years

...the average diabetic can expect to live to about 71.4 years for males, and about 75.4 years for females. Is a 40 year old diabetic at a 6-7% risk of dying from COVID-19 getting ready to die within the year? In another year? Or two? Or is it more like in 35-40 years?

I didn't say that "people with diabetes are going to die in a few years anyway".

In fact, NOBODY is saying that, even about those who are not extremely old and have the virus. Even the statistics you site all the time from Johns Hopkins say that, nor does the CDC or the WHO.

I said that old people close to the average age of COVID deaths, (yanno those who are OLDER than both the average age spans of people who die of diabetes that you just posted here) who also have diabetes and/or chronic heart issues and/or lung disease and/or high blood pressure are going to die in a few years anyway. (ie: Those who are roughly 80 years or older who are already in poor health for one reason or another).

And, BTW, your "40 year old diabetic at a 6-7% risk of dying from COVID-19" statistic is pure bullshit.

That's based off of confirmed cases vs. deaths. There is ZERO way to know how many people who currently have it (healthy or otherwise) that don't even know that they have it. With testing kits as hard to come by as they are, unless you're deathly ill you are not getting tested in most parts of the country and you aren't being counted.

That being said, at least until the new testing kits are proven to work, distributed en masse, and legitimately cataloged, there is also no way to even know how many people have had it that are already over it and immune either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Monday, April 6, 2020 9:51 AM

And to finally put the nail into the coffin of Jack's argument, I did look up statistics, because there are statistical techniques for unscrambling multiple causes from each other. I was confident that there were plenty of statistical analyses, and I was right. How could there not be? People need to find out what's important and what isn't.

Here's one written for the semi-layperson:

Quote:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-is-getting-sick-and-how-sick-a
-breakdown-of-coronavirus-risk-by-demographic-factors/

After taking into account the patients’ ages and smoking status, the researchers found that the 399 patients with at least one additional disease (including cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, hepatitis B, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, chronic kidney diseases, and cancer) had a 79% greater chance of requiring intensive care or a respirator or both, or of dying, they reported last week in a paper posted to medRxiv, a preprint site that posts research before it has been peer-reviewed. The 130 with two or more additional diseases had 2.5 times the risk of any of those outcomes.

This article is even more to the point of Jack's ridiculous posts:

Quote:
https://medium.com/wintoncentre/how-much-normal-risk-does-covid-repres
ent-4539118e1196

Mashing all conditions and diseases into one grand average by decade of age, if you're a 40-49 year old male, and get COVID-19, you will lose, on average, 7 months off your life. If you're a 60-69 year old female and get infected, you'll lose, on average, over 2 years off your life. A male in the 70-79 year old age range can expect to lose 4 years off their lifespan from COVID-19.

OBVIOUSLY, COVID-19 isn't merely harvesting people who were going to die that year anyway, as Jack originally posted. Or even within a year or two, as he later dodged.

Especially older people who get COVID-19 can expect to die, on average, multiple years earlier than normal.

This isn't swapping out one imminent cause of death for another imminent cause of death, as he claims.

It's killing people off who wouldn't ordinarily have died for quite some time.

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