' The truth - We will go extinct, very soon.'

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I wasn't laughing at the underlying concept. More at you and the harpies. You 3 make up the dumbest sh*t about other posters. "Wish says she wants to kill millions! OMG, wha!!!!"

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Actually, that is EXACTLY what she posted, more than once. She one posted that she would be willing to kill "... millions! billions!" ... "down to the last hundred" in order to make her worldview come true. She has since deleted those parts of her posts (seeing that they looked crazed) but I'm not the only one who read them.

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Jack, I anyway appreciate this expanded glimpse into your view of the world. So I hope in the future you continue to expound on your thoughts like this. But I suspect that, sadly, anyone who doesn't feel they are in their tribe will simp.- KIKI

Riiiight, 'cuz Jack is so reticent with his opinions.

Did you enjoy having your goolies juggled, Jack?

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There you go again, GSTRING! Perfectly gratutitous personal attacks, your usual MO!

I have no doubt at all about your capability of having a clean discussion. Or your ability to monitor your own behavior. Take that as you will.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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dbl

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SIX, I agree with you on the "encouraging savings" part of your ideas. I would extend it to saying that the government should tax debt (in general) as opposed to making debt a deductible item. Not just mortgage debt but also credit card debt, business debt, financial debt, public debt, student debt, and trade deficit. That would make debt more expensive (effectively raising the interest rate) and ecourage every entity to "live within its means". That would definitely reduce short-term consumption.

But part of that would have to include relief for the bottom 90%. It's not fair to ask people who have very little to have even less. I agree that people REALLY need to adjust their thinking ... they need to make a distinction between "needs" and "wants" ... I once saw one of our caregivers buy her daughters expensive leather jackets that I know for a fact she couldn't afford. That kind of shit has to go. ... but people need to get to that point over time. Say, five years to allow them to adjust their finances. So I think it should be instituted in stages, to give people and institutions time to adjust their thinking.

The great thing about it is, you wouldn't have to rely on banks to implement this push to encourage savings. The groups that would fight you tooth and nail on this would be the banks (Because they make money on loans) and all of the businesses that are currently using loans for speculation. It would change the calculations on leveraged buyouts, stock buybacks and hedge funds considerably! A lot of non-productive use of money might disappear.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Voting, at least when it comes to this issue, is meaningless.

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Bullshit. Obama got us into the Paris Accord and Trump the Luddite, took us out - case closed. Voting for more progressive, Climate Aware candidates (no matter the party, but who we kiddin'?) is one of the top 3 ways to change the planet.

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You tell me one thing that the Paris Accord actually did. Not what it claimed to do, or that it was going to do. What did it do. And at what cost?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Does it matter to me? Sure. I guess. I'm likely not going to be here. I've talked about the issue before with my brother. I'm hoping that everything is still going along smoothly for my niece's entire life. But honestly, beyond that, no... I guess I'm not really all that concerned.

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Selfish - totally human.

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Exactly.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Overall, I don't think that humanity in general really has earned the right to continue its existence in perpetuity. If the climate change doesn't get us, nuclear and/or biological war or enslavement via AI eventually will.

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Just dumb and overly dramatic. Life isn't a stupid tv show. Get real.

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No it's not. We're apes. There are too many of us. We protect the weakest and the dumbest and allow them to thrive. You're the one here arguing about us needing to make changes or the climate change will do us in. I'm just saying that if it doesn't, either something else will or we'll willingly enslave ourselves to technology if we're lucky enough to survive that long.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
We're not far removed from being a bunch of apes, but the technology we have on the other hand is staggering. A bunch of morons walking around with technology that we could put down at any second but are drawn to like a meth head to a pipe. Enslavement via AI would be the happiest of the outcome. There would be no Terminator type end of the human race in the end. The AI would win with billions of willing participants. If we somehow manage to survive climate change, extinction level war, and some random asteroid putting a football stadium sized hole in the planet at the speed of sound, I envision a future future for humanity that is more a cross between Ready Player One and The Matrix, with a lot of Blade Runner sexbots on the front lines.

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Again, Get real, life isn't a stupid movie.

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It's already happening, brother. All of the events that I've laid out here are making progress. Which one happens first is the only real question.

Sure, I might not care because it won't effect me, other than hoping that it all happens at least until my niece dies of old age, but at least I'm not burying my head in the sand about any of it.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
In the mean time, I sleep just fine at night. I recycle. Letters from the power company always show that my usage is "Great" and less than my "most efficient neighbors". I hardly ever buy anything new unless it is absolutely necessary to. Every piece of tech I have in my house is either over a decade old or was a hand me down from somebody else. Outside of underwear, socks and shoes, all of my current wardrobe is either over a decade old or was bought at Goodwill, and most of those clothes have about 5 different "stages" before they finally find their final resting place in the trash. I don't have any kids that will exponentially increase my carbon footprint throughout their lives.

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Sounds great - that's about all anyone can do. I work at home, so I buy gas once a month if that.

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Great. But no matter what you or I do we are still a negative output. We're also far from the norm amon

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
She one posted that she would be willing to kill "... millions! billions!" ... "down to the last hundred" in order to make her worldview come true. She has since deleted those parts of her posts (seeing that they looked crazed) but I'm not the only one who read them.

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And yet fascists are still dumber and more dangerous to the planet than me...go fig. At least I left a hundred people, they would not be happy with leaving a hundred people alone

For the record I DID NOT DELETE SHIT, I changed my taglines. I can't help it if your accounts no longer work correctly, maybe you should leave if you don't like it?

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Jack

People believe what they're taught to believe. Why did the Aztecs live in a society that willingly sacrificed thousands - maybe tens of thousands - of people each year? Why did large numbers of people drudge away at building pyramids for others, and die early deaths from their body-destroying work? Why did the Spartans kill imperfect infants and set their boy children to live out in the wild among packs of other boy children at the age of 5, to live or die on their own?

It's not because people woke up every morning and thought 'This feels like luxury!'. But in some way it must feel good, because doing that gives them a place in the great order of humanity.

Signy's posted it more than once and I'll be dipped if I can remember the title, but there was an extended movie that explained how the federal government intentionally turned people from hard workers / savers into consumers - because they thought that that was the only way to avoid another Great Depression. (I'll try to remember it and repost it.) The movie was full of quotes, names, dates, official records, and references - it wasn't just some 'conspiracy theory'.

Anyway - without all the context and detail, basically it said that previous to that propaganda, people believed that life was about hard work, saving, and raising the next generation. But after that propaganda - well, we are what you see.

Signy's also made the point many times that if it were human nature to be the way we are, tptb wouldn't need to KEEP lying us into war.

I'll extend that and say if it were human nature to be a compulsive consumer and nothing else, nobody would EVER need to advertise to us, either. But they do feel the need to advertise to us, to get us to do what they want. I know they do because we have this: "If folks from the marketing firm Yankelovich, Inc. are right, the average modern person is exposed to around 5,000 ads per day."



I used to never make arguments about human nature, because there have been, are, and (if we're long-term lucky) will be too many societies that contradict whatever theme one might wish to promote.

But I've come to the conclusion that we - our species - way back in the past and through today - needs to live in groups to survive. (Some of the information I support this with comes from the series 'Why We Hate', where I noticed that even bonobo chimps - that evolved in a rich enough environment that moms with babies could survive individually - live in groups. And so, this group-living behavior comes from further back than the split between regular chimps and bonobos. But it's evident that even today human moms+babies need larger groups to survive, so it's not just some evolutionary left-over like it seems to be with bonobos.)

Through language we are taught what reality is. Through language we are taught what makes us 'us' - what to believe, what to notice, what to do. We believe / accept / perform what we are taught, even if it flies in the face of observable reality, even if it kills us and our family members (Aztecs / Egyptians / Spartans). And we see our survival not in terms of problems to be solved, but in terms of struggle with 'them', the 'not us'.

I think we can be taught differently than we're taught today. So people could be taught that life isn't about consumerism.

But of course you and I aren't in charge of what people are taught.

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She one posted that she would be willing to kill "... millions! billions!" ... "down to the last hundred" in order to make her worldview come true. She has since deleted those parts of her posts (seeing that they looked crazed) but I'm not the only one who read them. - SIGNY


And yet fascists are still dumber and more dangerous to the planet than me...go fig. At least I left a hundred people, they would not be happy with leaving a hundred people alone - WISHY

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WHO is the fascist around here, WISHY? The one who wants to "eradicate" people? Or me?

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For the record I DID NOT DELETE SHIT , I changed my taglines. I can't help it if your accounts no longer work correctly, maybe you should leave if you don't like it?

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LIAR

So let's unpack your weasely deflection, shall we?

I didn't say that you deleted "posts". It's impossible to entirely delete a post because it will always remain, even if just a blank box with your avatar and tag lines. And even if you changed your tag line the rest of the post would remain. I said that you deleted THOSE PARTS of your posts. I can still see the rest of the post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Here's the quote. It was there, then WISHI erased it from the content of her post (not from her sig line, as she lied), but then it looks like it got restored. PLEASE NOTE: only WISHI or Haken could restore it, no one else has access to the content of WISHI's posts.

"I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule."

I have the link.

ETA: WISHI, you seem so desperate to be right all the time, you can't admit that somebody knows something different from what you know.

Perhaps you could - yanno - learn to understand the value of normal discussion, where you tell other people what you know, and other people tell you what they know, and everybody benefits.

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