Real World Event Discussions

IRAN: Trump's war?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 16:14
VIEWED: 23215
PAGE 9 of 42

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That's only because, as I've suspected all along and have said several times, because you hate yourself.

You really do have a delusion that everyone hates themselves, don't you??

I hate my health, and I hate being surrounded by goat-humping knuckle-draggers, but no one in this house hates themselves for who they are.

Maybe you should see a life coach or 12.

Well, since that wasn't directed at you at all, I would venture to guess that this is just another example of your blatant narcissism on display for everybody to see, Nilbog.

I'm glad for you that you don't hate yourself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:44 PM

double post......

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 22, 2019 7:08 PM

Quote:
I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam.

And that's where luck played an important role, for you, You volunteered for a meat grinder, and you came back alive

Quote:
. Before that I learned something that remains true today: Americans, and especially Republicans, either voters, military officers, or politicians, don’t understand how to efficiently ***win a war*** with the fewest dead on both sides. If Vietnam had been a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, the Republicans playing it, from President even down to colonels and captains, had chosen the most asinine game strategies. (I’m a relative of General Sherman and had opinions before volunteering about how to fight to win a civil war.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

What about Trump? What mistake is he making playing a MMORPG called America
rules the World?

Ivo Daalder explains in a book: The Empty Throne - America's Abdication of Global Leadership
www.publicaffairsbooks.com/titles/ivo-h-daalder/the-empty-throne/97815
41773851/

1) What's inside the book that might explain Trump and Iran?

Donald Trump wagered that the United States could secure the benefits of ***the world it created*** without bearing the burdens of leading it.

Now THAT'S a meaningless phrase! (1) The USA didn't "create" a world after WWII, because the USA didn't win the war (Russia did) and large parts of the world (Russia, China) were busy creating themselves, and (2) What is "leadership"? Does the author ever describe when "leadership" veers into violent domination?

Quote:
That bet was unlikely to pay off. The world that ***America created*** after World War II was not inevitable. It was the result of conscious policy choices made in the pursuit of a vision of how ***cooperation and leadership, rather than domination and competition, could benefit the United States***.

I'm sorry, but when I read phrases like that I kind of throw up in my mouth a little bit. The USA has been destabilizing, overthrowing, and invading nations quite regularly ever since WWII. Starting with the overthrow of the elected Iranian leader Mossadegh in 1953, https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64-years-later-cia-finally-releas
es-details-of-iranian-coup-iran-tehran-oil/ replacing him with the Shah, who was a brutal tyrant (which is why the USA was thrown out in 1978 along with the Shah) and including arming the Indonesian dictator Suharto, who then went on to kill at least a half-million (nad possibly up to three million) people in a bloody genocide (1965, thank you Henry Kissinger), supporting the overthrow of elected President of Brazil, Goulart, in 1965 and replacing him with a USA-backed military dictatorship, and other coups and invasions too numerous to mention which are still going on today.

Quote:
Consumed with the costs of that ***rules-based order***

"Rules-based order"?? SERIOUSLY??? What is that dood smoking??

Quote:
many of which he exaggerated, Trump couldn’t appreciate its continuing and far greater benefits. Working with friends and allies multiplied American power far more often than constrained it. As a result, Washington, more so than any other country, got to be the rule maker in international politics and, with that role, won ***the power to shape outcomes *** to its liking.

Didn't the guy just contradict himself? Didn't he slide from "rules based order" to "the power to shape outcomes"? So now it's about "power" instead of "rules" and "order"?

Quote:
By choosing to act alone rather than mobilizing others in common cause, Trump was waging war on the world America had made. He was also committing the very mistake he had accused his predecessors of making: taking on burdens others could have shared and squandering American power in the process.

2) Why is Trump acting belliger

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WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.

Only if it's with Russia.

And if you are playing the FF drinking game at home, she said the W word three times............................

Bottoms up!

It's so interesting you supported Trump because you thought he'd take us to war LESS, right?

WISHIMAY

Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam. Before that

Ok, Jack Ryan.

From what height?
(PS, I like Amazon's series. I don't see why people complain about it.)

I suppose if I had to choose between crashing into a diesel hauler semi or helicopter, I'd still take the semi.... Still can't bend mah big toe all the way and if I step backwards too fast it'll twinge, but for the most part I'm good.

How many things did you break?

As for reducing body count... not surprising given that all the guys in this country have EVER been taught is how to UP the body count. It takes a woman to understand what it takes to make another person.

Reminds me of a Trek novel I read once where they put cadets on an empty space station and they have to play King of the Hill, take over the whole station...
At the end one person that "killed" (stunned) half the station was told they lost because you were supposed to take over the station with minimal casualties.

Maybe make it mandatory reading for all military

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What about Trump? What mistake is he making playing a MMORPG called America rules the World?

. . .

Unfortunately, the ever-compliant media has been pushing hard in the opposite direction,and Trump is playing to an audience of warhawks and neocons and the ever-duped American public including TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.

Americans cannot rule the world because elections do not often select both competent and emotionally steady people for president and congress. America might occasionally get lucky with a Lincoln but more likely to get a LBJ. Some unstable President will trick a majority of foolish Congressmen into allowing/funding a war which is lost (Korea/Vietnam/Iraq). Those military fiascoes are mixed with completely unnecessary crashes that a foolish Congress allowed to happen in the American economy (Financial crisis of 2007–2008) and it soon becomes evident to the world that America can’t even rule itself, once again, because its elected President and Congress are mentally slow, incompetent, quarrelsome and not really able to control even their own behavior, let alone the world. Trump is simply a recent example of such a President.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:27 AM

Quote:
TWITCHY, SECONDRATE, THUGR, and GSTRING who want war, war, and more war.- SIGNY
Only if it's with Russia. -TWITCHY

See? Just like I said: Totally indoctrinated.

Quote:

It's so interesting you supported Trump because you thought he'd take us to war LESS, right? -TWITCHY

Yep, it is interesting that I wanted to go to war less. Did you support Hillary because you thought she'd take us to war MORE?

God, you're stupid

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

SECOND

Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:

I am 67. What happened to me? Helicopter crash in Vietnam. Before that

Ok, Jack Ryan. From what height?
(PS, I like Amazon's series. I don't see why people complain about it.)

I suppose if I had to choose between crashing into a diesel hauler semi or helicopter, I'd still take the semi.... Still can't bend mah big toe all the way and if I step backwards too fast it'll twinge, but for the most part I'm good.

How many things did you break?

As for reducing body count... not surprising given that all the guys in this country have EVER been taught is how to UP the body count. It takes a woman to understand what it takes to make another person.

Reminds me of a Trek novel I read once where they put cadets on an empty space station and they have to play King of the Hill, take over the whole station...
At the end one person that "killed" (stunned) half the station was told they lost because you were supposed to take over the station with minimal casualties.

Maybe make it mandatory reading for all military

I wish it was heroic, with guns blazing and major battle. But the fact is we hit a tree at dusk that stuck up higher than all the others. Boom! I've got a left leg shorter than the other. I would have ended up working at Burger King as a manager, same as my father until he retired, but I cannot stand on that leg all day. I tried it at Burger King and had to give up. Then I went to the University of Texas at Austin so I can get a job where I sit to work. Much better paying.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think there is a thread on Iran. Pompous, Bolt-on, and Trump are cranking up their "war on Iran"*, possibly leading up to war itself.

The PNAC neocons have long targeted Iran for destruction, along with Syria, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Lebanon. ("We’re going to start with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, then Libya, Somalia, Sudan, we’re going to come back and get Iran in five years". - General Clark)
https://journal-neo.org/2014/10/09/the-neoconservative-hit-list-iraq-l
ibya-and-now-syria-a-plan-for-global-u-s-military-supremacy/

I think it's interesting that I started this somewhat anti-Trump thread when everyone else was haring and hounding after distractions like Trump taxes! or RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

What I find fascinating is that when Trump FINALLY does something intelligent by calling off an airstrike on Iran, so called liberals are whining that Trump is "waffling"

What, they want to start another pointless Mideast war? Jeez people, make up your mind about what is good for America and take it from there, stop being so reactive.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, June 23, 2019 10:33 AM

Whatever Trump does is bad!!!

Do Right, Be Right. :)