IRAN: Trump's war?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 16:14
VIEWED: 23215
PAGE 4 of 42
Quote:THAT is called "evidence". Damage above the waterline rules out torpedoes and mines (unless someone has developed flying torpedoes and flying mines.) There was a report, almost immediately following the attack, that one of the ships was damaged above the waterline, which put the whole torpedo/mine scenario in question.
The Japanese owner of the Kokuka Courageous, one of two oil tankers targeted near the Strait of Hormuz, said Friday that sailors on board saw "flying objects" just before it was hit, suggesting the vessel wasn't damaged by mines.
That account contradicts what the U.S. military said as it released a video Friday it said shows Iranian forces removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the two ships that were hit.
The Japanese tanker was attacked twice Thursday, damaging the vessel and forcing all 21 crew members to evacuate.
Company president Yutaka Katada said Friday he believes the flying objects seen by the sailors could have been bullets. He denied any possibility of mines or torpedoes because the damage was above the ship's waterline.
Quote:Question: Were the damaged points both on the same side? Or on different sides?
He called reports of a mine attack "false."
Katada said the crew members also spotted an Iranian naval ship nearby, but didn't specify whether that was before or after the attacks.
The tanker survived the first attack, which hit near the engine room and was followed by another, damaging the starboard side toward the back.
Quote:What the article fails to note is that Shinzo Abe, Japan's current PM, was IN IRAN when the Japanese vessel was attacked. Iran would have no interest in torpedoing (so to speak) their negotiations with Japan by attacking a Japanese ship. The timing just reeks of false flag.
The U.S. military's Central Command said the video it released shows Iran's Revolutionary Guard removing an unexploded limpet mine from one of the tankers, suggesting Tehran sought to remove evidence of its involvement from the scene. Iran denies being involved and accuses the U.S. of waging an "Iranophobic campaign" against it.
The U.S. Navy rushed to assist the stricken vessels in the Gulf of Oman, off the coast of Iran, including one that was set ablaze Thursday by an explosion.
The operators of the Norwegian-owned MT Front Altair offered no immediate explanation of what happened to their vessel.
This is very much like the chemical attacks in Syria: right after Obama drew a "red line" someone triggered a gas attack? Assad had nothing to gain from doing that.
Fortunately, the world seems to have become a lot more sophisticated lately about detecting these concoted events.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Meanwhile Trump and Pompous are flogging the "Iran did it" line.
That Trump is going to take this us with the UN Security Council indicates that he isn't going to do anything about it except make political points with his Zionist contributor, Sheldon Adelson and the pro-Israel portion of his base, without pissing off his anti-war supporters. Possibly we will be treated to another dog-and-pony show al la Colin Powell, of grainy photos and random bits of metal (or something) which no one will believe, and any action will be voted down by Russia and China in the Securty Council. There will be people who believe, against all evidence, that Iran did it and that some previous action by the UN gives the USA the "right" to invade Iran, but let's hope that their idiocy doesn't rule the day.
There's a lot going on the the background. Supposedly, when Pompous went to talk to Putin about Iran many observers said Pompous emerged "pale faced". Obviously, I have no idea what was said in private, but smarter people than me have speculated that what Pompous heard was If you attack Iran we will arm your enemies: Imagine Iran with our Kaliber missiles and S-400 air defenses - any aircraft carrier or installation within 1000 miles can be destroyed ... or something like that.
I think that Trump will make a point that this event "proves" that Iran, or Russia, or even China, needs "further isolation" and will call for more unilateral sactions or more tariffs. This event might be multi-faceted goal: to raise oil prices (benefitting USA shale oil and Saudi Arabia, who need high oil prices a lot more than Russia), and to diss Russia and China ahead of the G20, before they get to diss us.
Not sure if you are aware but Trump threatened the Chinese with more tariffs if they don't show up for the G20. Now he says he doesn't care of they show up or not. HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of. IMHO this means that Russia and China, rather than just independently breaking ties with the USA and hardening their economies against further USA-generated shocks, are now actively cooperating on melding China's New Silk Road with Russia's EAEU and excluding the dollar from Eurasian-bloc trade.
I'm just going to briefly mention Jim Willie's prediction of a "dual universe" world, in which trade and development occurs in two independent blocs: the "western" bloc and the Eurasian bloc. If the USD becomes excluded from Eurasian trade I'll bring it up in the "death of the dollar" thread.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:Quote:And this is why we know you'e a Russian troll.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT
Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX
HAHA! indeed.
I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".
Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?
Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.
So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
Not a very bright one. That's why they assigned you to this teeny tiny site.
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Quote:I've always thought that China was a fair-weather friend to Russia. So I was pretty cynical when I read reports that Xi and Putin had become allies, to all intents and purposes. I thought - just wait till China has to take some kind of hit to support or defend Russia. Then we'll see how far this really goes.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of.
But then I read (in translation of course) the warm words Xi spoke - of mutual trust, friendship, and defense. They seemed to go FAR beyond the normally polite and non-committal Chinese officialdom-speak. They actually seemed to veer into an affirmative commitment.
Either XI has got the western talent of speaking totally meaningless words, or something significant happened.
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Quote:Because I don't want my country to be attacking every other nation on the planet????
Putin doesn't want the US to attack Iran.
Therefore, neither does Siggy. - REAVERBOT
Hitler loved dogs.
Therefore, anyone who loves dogs is a Nazi.- SIX
HAHA! indeed.
I swear to god, REAVERBOT has only a few words in its vocabulary: "Nazi" "troll" and "Russia". Occasionally it veers off into new territory, like "Pppppppputin".
Hey REAVERBOT! How does it feel to be so stupid?
Here's the deal: I don't want the USA to attack ANYBODY. "Attacking" is an offensive (not defesnive) position, and violence IMHO should only be used in defense. You OTOH ... seem to want to attack everybody, not only at the national level but at the personal level.
So you're not only an abysmally stupid bot, you're an aggressive little bot too. Somebody should reprogram you.- SIGNY
And this is why we know you'e a Russian troll. -REAVERBOT
Quote:Really? What are YOU doing here??
Not a very bright one. That's why they assigned you to this teeny tiny site.- REAVERBOT
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I've felt for a long time that the Chinese were keeping one foot in each camp and would jump whichever way they thought most beneficial. "opportunist" was the term that came to mind. But I think Trump has managed to convince Xi and his bloc in the Chinese Communist Party leadership that dealing with America is a losing proposition.
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:I've always thought that China was a fair-weather friend to Russia. So I was pretty cynical when I read reports that Xi and Putin had become allies, to all intents and purposes. I thought - just wait till China has to take some kind of hit to support or defend Russia. Then we'll see how far this really goes.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
HA! Xi just recently attended the St Petersburg Economic Forum, which was both unexpected and unheard-of.
But then I read (in translation of course) the warm words Xi spoke - of mutual trust, friendship, and defense. They seemed to go FAR beyond the normally polite and non-committal Chinese officialdom-speak. They actually seemed to veer into an affirmative commitment.
Either XI has got the western talent of speaking totally meaningless words, or something significant happened.
And now, I see the real utility of China's One Belt One Road.
Just let me say that I originally thought it was a giant make-work project: That the Chinese leadership had hitched the Chinese wagon to the USA's market, hoping to develop the Japan and South-Korean way. IMHO 2008 really took them by surprise; they really thought that western financialists had it all figured out and they hadn't expected such a sudden and thorough collapse of their major export market. So they decided to improve their internal market by raising the middle class, but their "loose money" policy (carried out by their extensive shadow-banking system) only managed to create a lot of uber-wealthy commodity speculators (iron, aluminum etc) in the coastal cities without touching the interior. So they switched to the OBOR/ New Silk Road ... building infrastructure in other nations creates a demand for their factories' output. They seemed to be starting projects almost at random ... a series of ports begun a decade ago (String of Pearls) in Malaysia and Pakistan etc, lately pipelines to Siberia (The Power of Siberia gas pipeline), hitching up the Trans-Siberian railway to Beijing, roads and pipelines through Xinjiang (western China) Afghanistan and Pakistan and hiving off into other directions, and (most recently) working with Russia on an Arctic sea route. It almost seemed as if they were starting a dozen projects with the idea that some - if not most- were going to fail. "Let a thousand flower bloom"... but only the strong survive.
But with Trump sanctioning Iran and (worse) having the naval power to threaten the Straits of Malacca - which for China is a chokepoint as bad as the Straits of Hormuz, if not worse - China may see itself as NEEDING routes and transport that DOESN'T go thru the Malaccan straits or the South China Sea, but absolutely depending on an unsanctionable land-based route to access oil from Iran; gas oil uranium and non-ferrous minerals from Kazahksta;, water gas and food from Russia etc. Of course they still need sea routes to Africa but it looks to me like they may be digging in, willing and able to give up their world-straddling access to minerals energy and markets if necessary, and sink into the Eurasian landmass. Most of those projects which looked like random make-work suddenly looks to me like they have real purpose and utility.
Anyway, I know this is somewhat far afield from IRAN, unless China openly defies American sanctions against Iran (or, more likely, openly defies them once those land-based routes and pipelines become operational) in which case IRAN suddenly becomes relevant.
The USA's response, as usual, is to try to provoke "regime change" in troublesome countries and, failing that, open invasion. But I think both Russ
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Thinking about your post Signy - I think two things are going on.
1) Russia and China have been thrown into each other's arms for many years, and ... they're, finally, holding on tightly to each other. China has concluded there's no upside to dealing with the US on anything vital.
2) Trump has always had a hard-on for Iran. It was already in his campaign speeches, so this is not a new development. Combine that with Bolt-on and Pompous. And they don't seem to have learned from recent history - neither Syria nor Venezuela have so far worked the way they were intended. So I can't think of any brakes on aggressive US provocations re Iran.
WAY back when, before the 2016 election, I saw that the US might miscalculate with Russia, assuming that Russia would choose to endure an endless string of aggressions rather than risk retaliating and triggering an all-out confrontation. But there's an alternative and fearful scenario, which is that Russia might choose to respond in a limited nuclear way, that the US would have to endure, since no one wins an all-out nuclear war.
I apply the same thinking here, except Russia / China are on the same side, and it's over Iran, rather than Syria.
The problem is that the US isn't playing with a mental full deck. It seems like nobody here has rationally thought out the range of possibilities. (Either it's that, or they have and they have their little hidey-holes where they think they can all survive; and we're just so much expendable biomass.) Given that, I personally find it hard to predict what might happen. But I see it as a potentially fatal problem, to address in the next election.
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Quote:1kiki, you should have kept your defining signature:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
The problem is that the US isn't playing with a mental full deck. It seems like nobody here has rationally thought out the range of possibilities. (Either it's that, or they have and they have their little hidey-holes where they think they can all survive; and we're just so much expendable biomass.) Given that, I personally find it hard to predict what might happen. But I see it as a potentially fatal problem, to address in the next election.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better? http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62864&mid=10775
50#1077550
An election that changes the leadership from Republican to Democrat won't fix what is wrong with American voters. 70 percent of Americans now favor the United States taking an active part in world affairs. Since @ChicagoCouncil polling on that question began in 1974, the only time that number has been higher was in 2002, just after 9/11.
Americans are just as bloodthirsty as they’ve ever been. All we need is a push from a demagogish president and we’re ready to bomb the crap out of anybody.
Promoting democracy, taking on Chinese aggression, promoting trade, fighting global poverty, and defending human rights — “the core activities of building a civilized global community” — Americans have never really cared much about that stuff. We’ll tolerate a fair amount of it here and there, and of course we were always happy to use it as an excuse for various Cold War depredations — or for bombing the crap out of our enemy du jour these days — but that’s about it. I love my country, but it’s silly to pretend that we’ve ever been anything we aren’t.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/06/david-brooks-has-gotten-lazy/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump has brilliantly cornered himself where he’s now demanding Iran abide by a deal he already reneged on.
Trump, already suffering from a serious credibility deficit with allies, is now in the awkward position of demanding that Tehran comply with an agreement Trump has not only derided, but pulled out of! “Administration officials found themselves Monday grappling with whether to press the remaining parties to the deal, including Britain, France and Germany, to demand that Iran stay in compliance,” the Associated Press reports. “They must also consider if such a stance would essentially concede that the restrictions imposed during the Obama administration, while short of ideal, are better than none.”
It’s almost like the previous administration weighed up the pros and cons and made a decision in the best strategic interest of the country. That feeling you have right now is nostalgia for competence.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump prepares to bypass Congress to take on Iran
The Trump administration and its domestic political allies are laying the groundwork for a possible confrontation with Iran without the explicit consent of Congress — a public relations campaign that was already well under way before top officials accused the Islamic Republic of attacking a pair of oil tankers last week in the Gulf of Oman.
Over the past few months, senior Trump aides have made the case in public and private that the administration already has the legal authority to take military action against Iran, citing a law nearly two decades old that was originally intended to authorize the war in Afghanistan.
www.politico.com/story/2019/06/18/trump-congress-iran-1366756
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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