Dems, Dem-lites and Independents, who ya backing at this point and why?
POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:53
VIEWED: 19566
PAGE 11 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've already said that the mentally ill, intellectually disabled and addicted (oh, and children) need a different kind of assistance. Beyond that, I'm not about to go trying to minutely control every aspect of everyone's life. CHINA does that, it's called their "social credit" system.
Just give people money and let them make their choices.
****
But if there was a real job at a living wage for everyone who wanted to work ... we wouldn't need this aid. If you want a reprise of my REAL obssessive agenda ... the goverment needs to reform the financial system and the economy to make "aid" less necessary. This discussion of welfare is NOT my agenda.
People make bad choices.
Aid is ALWAYS going to be necessary, and the key word here Ms. Paranoid is VOLUNTARY.
Why does "doing the right thing" = "control" to you??
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Quote:For March 2019 the Outlay for Social Security was $87 B. For the first 6 months of the Fiscal Year, it was $512 B. That is the largest item of spending.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yang wants to reduce military spending 200 Billion, but that wouldn't be enough, and I'm not sure where he got that number.
There's another 68 Billion in food stamps.
How much is Social Security? I can't seem to find what the yearly payouts for that is. Quite a bit of that could be rolled into UBI quite easily, I would think. Some thought would have to go into a sliding scale to decide who would get more than the $1,000 per month of UBI based on need.
There should also be no cap on Social Security and Medicare. If the plan is to tax the Uber Rich more, the first place to start would be making every dime you make taxable to SSI/Medicaid. Also make certain that after a lower amount of capitol gains have been acquired, the rest would be subject to a SSI/UBI/Medicare tax as well. (This tax would have to be high enough as to not hurt middle-class investors, and would go a long way to sustaining UBI/SSI and healthcare costs).
Of course, all of these numbers would need to be adjusted for inflation every year, or else we're just starting more bubbles we don't need.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
The Monthly Treasury Statement updates that every month, and those numbers are laid out in the first 5 pages of the current format. And they have archives.
The 3rd or 4th largest Outlay category is Medicare. $53 B for March, $302 B for the half Fiscal Year.
On this subject of being paid to not work: how is this different than Greece?
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So, people make bad choices. Do people ALWAYS choose perfectly? Do people ALWAYS pick the right career, the right partner, the right investment, the right friends, the right city, the right option on whether or not to have children, and how many?
I know I've made bad choices and I'm sure you have too, despite the fac that you like to get angry at other people for not being as perfect as you are!
*****
I've already made myself clear ... long-term welfare for competent work-able working-age adults is not my preferred option. Sometimes life throws you a curveball tho, and for those instances ... well, that's where assistance comes in.
But long-term welfare for competent adults is a byproduct of a defective system that rewards sociopathy and disincentivises work. If you want to fix the problem, change the system.
But if you're not willing to change the system, then at least try not to make things worse.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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So SIX ... you want to kipe the entire Social Sceurity budget?
NOT BLOODY LIKELY!
First of all, the people who are collecting Social Security are either retired, disabled, or disabled children ... people who (for the most part) CAN'T work. Yes, I know, there are stories of 75-year-olds happily working but I can tell you, from experience, that most retirees ... the the time they retire ... are used up and/or suffer from accumulated health issues. You're putting those people on the same footing s younger, healthier people who CAN work a full-time job.
Secondly, those people who retired planned on a specific income, and yanking it away after-the-fact would just create a lot of elderly poor. It may chap your ass that some retirees refer to their Social Security as "casino money" ... I frankly don't know anyone who does ... but what that means is that they saved for their retirement. Are you going to punish people who made good decisions? And for those who depend on Socail Security ... the minum payment is $1300/mo ... you'll just drive them further into poverty.
The best thing to do would be to replace the $1000/month of Social Security with UBI, or better yet, make people who are receiving Social Security, SSI etc ineligible for UBI benefits. I know that makes UBI less "uinversal" but it still DOES simplify the system
I still have a problem with ubi tho: much of the money wil still go to China or elsewhere. So my choice would still be Medicare for All
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:I already understood that 6ix doesn't seem to understand the underlying problems with his Magic Bullet solution, but perhaps you have overlooked it as well.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So SIX ... you want to kipe the entire Social Sceurity budget?
NOT BLOODY LIKELY!
First of all, the people who are collecting Social Security are either retired, disabled, or disabled children ... people who (for the most part) CAN'T work. Yes, I know, there are stories of 75-year-olds happily working but I can tell you, from experience, that most retirees ... the the time they retire ... are used up and/or suffer from accumulated health issues. You're putting those people on the same footing s younger, healthier people who CAN work a full-time job.
Secondly, those people who retired planned on a specific income, and yanking it away after-the-fact would just create a lot of elderly poor. It may chap your ass that some retirees refer to their Social Security as "casino money" ... I frankly don't know anyone who does ... but what that means is that they saved for their retirement. Are you going to punish people who made good decisions? And for those who depend on Socail Security ... the minum payment is $1300/mo ... you'll just drive them further into poverty.
The best thing to do would be to replace the $1000/month of Social Security with UBI, or better yet, make people who are receiving Social Security, SSI etc ineligible for UBI benefits. I know that makes UBI less "uinversal" but it still DOES simplify the system
UBI would put a huge spike in Inflation. EVERYBODY gets it. And EVERYBODY KNOWS that everybody gets it. The minimum costs for everything would go up. If the cheapest rent was around $400 per month, it would jump a lot closer to $1,000 per month - almost overnight. All other bottom-of-the-barrel prices would go up. $1,000 per month would become the new baseline, the new $0 per month. The stipend from SS would become essentially worthless.
Bloating the Federal Debt just to make the $US worthless is not a great plan. Unless you are working towards anarchy, the collapse of USA.
Handouts of Government Spending as a path to prosperity is a foolish endeavor.
Plus, paying everybody to not work makes America less productive, and in the Global marketplace a pariah.
America already has 1/3 of the adult population not working, no need to make that even more.
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Quote:Wishi says about 60 million receive SS benefits.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:For March 2019 the Outlay for Social Security was $87 B. For the first 6 months of the Fiscal Year, it was $512 B. That is the largest item of spending.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yang wants to reduce military spending 200 Billion, but that wouldn't be enough, and I'm not sure where he got that number.
There's another 68 Billion in food stamps.
How much is Social Security? I can't seem to find what the yearly payouts for that is. Quite a bit of that could be rolled into UBI quite easily, I would think. Some thought would have to go into a sliding scale to decide who would get more than the $1,000 per month of UBI based on need.
There should also be no cap on Social Security and Medicare. If the plan is to tax the Uber Rich more, the first place to start would be making every dime you make taxable to SSI/Medicaid. Also make certain that after a lower amount of capitol gains have been acquired, the rest would be subject to a SSI/UBI/Medicare tax as well. (This tax would have to be high enough as to not hurt middle-class investors, and would go a long way to sustaining UBI/SSI and healthcare costs).
Of course, all of these numbers would need to be adjusted for inflation every year, or else we're just starting more bubbles we don't need.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
The Monthly Treasury Statement updates that every month, and those numbers are laid out in the first 5 pages of the current format. And they have archives.
The 3rd or 4th largest Outlay category is Medicare. $53 B for March, $302 B for the half Fiscal Year.
On this subject of being paid to not work: how is this different than Greece?
So about $1,450 per month average.
I did not know that.
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OK, JSF, you're right: UBI is a bad idea. Simplifying Federal benefits would probably be more helpful.
I still think Medicare for All is a better idea tho.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:I already understood that 6ix doesn't seem to understand the underlying problems with his Magic Bullet solution, but perhaps you have overlooked it as well.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So SIX ... you want to kipe the entire Social Sceurity budget?
NOT BLOODY LIKELY!
First of all, the people who are collecting Social Security are either retired, disabled, or disabled children ... people who (for the most part) CAN'T work. Yes, I know, there are stories of 75-year-olds happily working but I can tell you, from experience, that most retirees ... the the time they retire ... are used up and/or suffer from accumulated health issues. You're putting those people on the same footing s younger, healthier people who CAN work a full-time job.
Secondly, those people who retired planned on a specific income, and yanking it away after-the-fact would just create a lot of elderly poor. It may chap your ass that some retirees refer to their Social Security as "casino money" ... I frankly don't know anyone who does ... but what that means is that they saved for their retirement. Are you going to punish people who made good decisions? And for those who depend on Socail Security ... the minum payment is $1300/mo ... you'll just drive them further into poverty.
The best thing to do would be to replace the $1000/month of Social Security with UBI, or better yet, make people who are receiving Social Security, SSI etc ineligible for UBI benefits. I know that makes UBI less "uinversal" but it still DOES simplify the system
UBI would put a huge spike in Inflation. EVERYBODY gets it. And EVERYBODY KNOWS that everybody gets it. The minimum costs for everything would go up. If the cheapest rent was around $400 per month, it would jump a lot closer to $1,000 per month - almost overnight. All other bottom-of-the-barrel prices would go up. $1,000 per month would become the new baseline, the new $0 per month. The stipend from SS would become essentially worthless.
Bloating the Federal Debt just to make the $US worthless is not a great plan. Unless you are working towards anarchy, the collapse of USA.
Handouts of Government Spending as a path to prosperity is a foolish endeavor.
Plus, paying everybody to not work makes America less productive, and in the Global marketplace a pariah.
America already has 1/3 of the adult population not working, no need to make that even more.
You're contradicting yourself here.
First you say that $1,000 would be the new $0.
Then you say that the money would disincentivize people to work.
Which is it? It can't be both.
I just pointed out in the other thread how the system we have in place now disincentivizes work. Yanno, a $4/hour increase leading to only 46 cents extra per hour in my pocket. No health insurance.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know I've made bad choices and I'm sure you have too, despite the fac that you like to get angry at other people for not being as perfect as you are!
No, I get mad at people for not trying at all. Like you don't even try to not blah blah about military and war at every in-opportunity. Why don't you start a thread about it....OH, THAT'S RIGHT....NO ONE GIVES A DAMN.
All of these "solutions" are basically people just wanting to throw money at other people. That's not going to work short-term, let alone long term.
People aren't making enough money because modern day living is expensive and expansive. There probably isn't ANY quick fixes for that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
UBI would put a huge spike in Inflation. EVERYBODY gets it. And EVERYBODY KNOWS that everybody gets it. The minimum costs for everything would go up. If the cheapest rent was around $400 per month, it would jump a lot closer to $1,000 per month - almost overnight. All other bottom-of-the-barrel prices would go up. $1,000 per month would become the new baseline, the new $0 per month. The stipend from SS would become essentially worthless.
Bloating the Federal Debt just to make the $US worthless is not a great plan. Unless you are working towards anarchy, the collapse of USA.
Handouts of Government Spending as a path to prosperity is a foolish endeavor.
Plus, paying everybody to not work makes America less productive, and in the Global marketplace a pariah.
America already has 1/3 of the adult population not working, no need to make that even more.
Boom - Mic drop. Very sound reasoning JSF! I agree completely. $1000 is enough to never have to work. You might make it make sense with $500 or food/gas/utilites/housing credits, but then inflation probably happens like JSF says. I think once people see the issues with UBI they will discount Yang - that's basically his party piece.
I too am for Medicare for all. If we're such a awesome nation we should be able to make it work better than anywhere else. Leave out the politicians and we'll have a chance. Just not having to pay for insurance would be a huge boon to individuals AND to businesses. The idea that they should have to pay for someone else's coverage never made sense to me - those costs end up getting passed on to the consumer.
And don't touch my SS unless you just make it better and sooner - I've invested way too much in it already.
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